You should also include in the credits doc the original development team of TPDP, namely FocasLens, since they’re the ones that did 99% of the work in this (as in, the actual portraits/full sprites in the game.) I doubt anyone would use them, but it’d be irritating to have them not get credited for the work they did on the off chance someone does.
…it’s also probably just me and a friend, but using other games’ sprites as resources to share to the public, and calling them ‘free to use’, just feels extremely wrong to me.
Also don’t hack FE games, that would be stealing the work of Intelligent Systems.
Any other lukewarm takes people want to vomit onto this thread? It’s been a real dismal past week or so.
Edit: And worth mentioning, if something is going to be shared publicly, of course it’s going to be listed as F2U. That is what the term F2U means. It’s for people to use.
Fair point there, but I think preserving copyright within the bounds of ‘we’re romhacking here’ is still something worth to think about. Just my thoughts I probably shouldn’t have tacked on.
Given the above, yeah I agree that FocasLens as a whole should get a credit as well. I chose to credit Hemoglobin because he was the one who actually made the original sprites, but crediting the entire circle as well is fairer.
I’ve taken the liberty of updating the credits doc in the relevant folder as well.
Stop it.
You know full well the context of using fire emblem sprites in a fire emblem community is entirely different than using assets from a different IP. Or were you unaware that the loading screen of the games literally shows the company that created it as well as the title? Not to mention the false equivalence you just created with your splicing statement.
Jey I’m not even going to give you an actual response and instead an informal verbal warning. If you don’t want to be rude, don’t be rude.
A small smattering of things that have been in the Repo for years and are directly ripped from other games. You’ve waited this long to say something? A charitable man would say that’s because you weren’t aware of their existence until just today, but I think the more likely reason is the simple logic of “Klok is saying something so I must inherently disagree.”
And the reason I’m sure that is the case…
This animation, and others, existed years ago in the SF forums and on FEU, this very forum, in the topic you ran, but said nothing about. You would think that if adding content ripped from other games was a problem, you would have said something sooner.
I don’t play Touhou. I don’t know anything about it. I see people who made the sprites or who otherwise claimed to, submitting them to a public repo for other people to enjoy and use.
Will I ever use them? Not even remotely.
Will I rain on their parade for seemingly no reason? Also no.
Now, if you have proof these people didn’t make the sprites or don’t have the right to post them, or that the original creators wouldn’t want to post them… fair enough. I’ll be happy to remove them.
I want to thank you for your demonstrated professionalism and coolness of head. Unrelated: This might be why people don’t like to post on the FEU forums these days.
I would like to briefly interrupt this discussion (which I do not wish to get involved in so don’t @ me) with TOUHOU FUN FACTS.
When it comes to the direct usage of Touhou stuff (that is to say, anything found in the original Touhou games), ZUN has declared that anything you make that’s self-published is allowed to use the source material in any way without even notifying him. However, he does specify that copyright of assets created by other people based on his stuff remains with them, which is what makes this fun fact irrelevant to the discussion at hand, hence why it’s just a fun fact.
What this does mean is you could probably toss anything from a direct Touhou game into the repo if you wanted to. Would you want to? Maybe if it was from one of the fighting games lol.
Why is this even a discussion? Some portraits and battle animations are ripped straight from other games, and MOST of the backgrounds and music available for this community, be it on the repo or on some other thread, is from licensed properties. I’m not quite sure I get it. Especially coming from a romhacking community.
Why did this become an issue? I mean as sketchy our thing is, we are still under the legality as technically fan games. If I misunderstood the law please tell me but this looks perfectly legal to me.
i’ll just step in by saying that if we really want to look at the “legal” aspect of it all, then people shouldn’t even be allowed to rip off sprites from licensed games in the first place.
thing is, making “fan games” has always been that sort of gray area when it comes to resources, because even if you manage to edit any form of source material, be it images or sounds or music or anything else, it would still imply that you actually modified the work of someone else, be it free or not, licensed or not.
to further clarify, and i mean no harm whatsoever, mind you:
while i do understand your point of view, that also feels kinda contradictory to me, because in that case websites like Spriters Resource shouldn’t even be allowed to exist, let aside fan games/hacking platforms.
in my opinion, since we’re still navigating in a gray area, i guess it could be fine if you post an already edited sprite( like splices for example )and eventually call it F2U/F2E.
ripping off an original sprite from a licensed game with no edits whatsoever and call it F2U/F2E probably might not be a wise idea, even if there are such websites that host such material, but that’s their own problem.
long story short:
either someone revisits the whole rules of this platform to avoid any further/eventual issues, wich would probably be a huge ass load of work that i honestly doubt anyone from the administartion team would be willing to do.
or, since we already have our rules here that gets enforced when needed without many issues, let’s just not make a fuss over nothing.
i’d rather prefer to not see this little community of hobbists stumble upon itself for trivial stuff, if possible.
guys, setting aside the whole philosophy of use stuff, is it really that hard to just add the credits that were asked
You should also include in the credits doc the original development team of TPDP, namely FocasLens , since they’re the ones that did 99% of the work in this (as in, the actual portraits/full sprites in the game.)
Thank you very much! Having played through TPDP four times over now, I really wanted to see the good folks get credit. also because those sprites are cute as hell.
Also, what BigMood said is something I didn’t know, so that’s neat! Well, slash whatever argument I had then, ZUN truly is based as hell
Okay, I talked it over a bit internally and I think things are getting pointlessly heated because everyone is talking past each other.
Let’s break down a few of the things that have been said.
Zoramine can correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that this is more about it being a little weird for people to be submitting work that is earmarked for another project, especially when the person doing the submission is not actually the creator, especially especially if that project is a fangame rather than a commercial venture. I think it’s well-demonstrated that there’s room for nuance here, both with the “Nintendo already got our money” argument and the whole “honor among thieves” shit that’s been argued over for years. If I’m being entirely honest, I’m not a huge fan of having something hosted from someone who isn’t even in our community, but since it seems that permission has been granted, that ends at my personal distaste.
To my knowledge, this was never a thing that was actually said, nor do I think that it directly follows from an aside about about re-hosting sprites from someone else’s game, so I don’t really know why this is relevant.
I don’t think it was very well-expressed, but if you read closely instead of knee-jerk responding with “boo hoo the mods never agree with klok”, the claim is that, in all practicality, there’s no need to explicitly credit Fire Emblem assets in a game with the words “Fire Emblem” emblazoned across the title screen, in a forum with the words “Fire Emblem” across its banner. This is regarding the first half of what Zoramine said, about adding the credits in the first place, not the second bit about whether it’s okay to post stuff from other IPs. As the credits have duly been added (which I indeed missed on a first read-through), I don’t think there’s much else to be said on this side of the subject.
and finally
I think that, if these people don’t like to post on the forums out of fear that they’ll be warned for making blanket, unelaborated statements calling people who care about intellectual property hypocrits, alongside passive-aggressive sarcasm (that didn’t even have anything to do with what was said?), they should be thinking twice before posting.
Yeah, my wording was garbage, and I definitely put in an opinion I shouldn’t have. What you said basically boils down what my thoughts are - It’s weird to me to submit work that was in another project, not submitted by the creator. But thankfully, my real problem was just the lack of credit, which has since been addressed.
I’ll keep it in mind in the future to keep opinions to myself to avoid this happening in the future.
If using things from other games is not okay, why even arbitrarily allow sprites and splices from FE games? And also they’ve been in the Repo (and the Animation Directory preceding it, run by Skitty himself) for years, why is it a problem now? It seems that either is not the original argument or it’s no longer being argued, so whatever.
It’s clear now though that… well I guess the ‘other game’ here is… I don’t actually know. I know so little about Touhou that I can barely even say my knowledge is surface level. I’m not sure what makes this specific Touhou game different from Super Mario and Luigi or Metroid. It might be because it’s an indie game? I don’t even know what specific Touhou games exist. I just know there’s a loli witch and Bad Apple exists and Markyjoe’s waifu Reisen is a thing, and that’s about it.
Let’s move on.
In the entire time I’ve run the repo, if someone has asked me to include credits, I just added it. Always have, always will. It’s the basic level of courtesy all creators deserve. Not even basic, like the minimum possible requirement.
Of course, these credits haven’t always been perfect. But that’s why when you see missing or incorrect credits, you should just report them so we can fix them.
I think we’ve all learned a valuable lesson about picking our words carefully.
I wouldn’t go that far. Maybe I should try to read better intentions into your words instead
honestly this should go for everyone here. i think most conflict here start cause people just didn’t think of the intention of the poster’s comment, yall just respond in an emotionally charged way, which of course leads to the other side doing the same. Even if there’s something said that’s not to your believes or values, you should always give the person the benefit of the doubt, and if things need addressing, address it in the most logical manner possible, Like Cam does. There’s a fundamental misunderstanding and miscommunication that led to heated debates like this which could be avoided if people just stepped back and cool down before replying
Just my thoughts, but what do i know I’ve only been here for 1 + year.
I don’t want to extend this discussion, but the difference here is that the sprites are from a Touhou FANGAME made by FANS. Imagine if a Pokemon romhack used assets from FEU uncredited. That’s what the issue is. This was not made clear before, so I understand your misgivings.
