How would you make a final boss?

Community
1

Final boss have always been the most interesting part of the game for me. Some seek challenge but others seek balance. It’s very hard to make a balanced boss. But if you make them too easy then that’s pretty bad too. The most perfect example for this is Demon King from FE8. He wasn’t that weak stats-wise but due to the game mechanics and legendary weapons he’s too easy. A total of 9 legendary weapons totally busts him. Then there’s sealed sword which busts Iduun.

And finally… There’s Luna which can bust pretty much everything. So, how would you make a boss which is challenging as well as balanced ?

3 Likes
2

I rather liked Awakening with the Dragonscale ability halving all damage, it’s a way for damage to uh… scale and balance itself for everyone, the more damage you do, the more it downs it-- the less you do the less it’s hindered.

2 Likes
3

I think that having multiple health bars on a boss like in 3H and Engage can be really interesting, since it guarantees you can’t one-shot them. And it also caps how much damage you can do up to a certain point in any given phase.

In GBA, it shouldn’t be too hard to recreate with Events

5 Likes
4

What do you guys think about Great Shield on a final boss… ? I know that skill’s broken but it’s the final boss.

5

I’ma quickly list most FE final bosses and my opinions

FE4: due to his unique skill barely takes damage unless one holy weapon, and he can’t really kill you. so weak but tanky? bad boss.

FE5: Who? Bosses next to him with tiles that grant +10 or so to a game with 20capped stats is scary AF. basically stat balls are strong, bad final boss, hard final chapter.

FE6: Lol. Holy weapon wins.

FE7: True damage is scary basically, swarm him and don’t let them get a turn 2 is the way. Kinda mediocre

FE8: Same as 7, but easier as he wastes a turn.

FE9: don’t really remember, but hard mode and final boss moving is plenty scary. Actually I remember him having capped stats are brutalizing most of the team.

FE10: Alot of defenses and better have a healer.

Awakening: Brutal to reach, ok to defeat

Fates: Oh god there’s another form. Not to bad, once you reach again.

3H Golden Deer: Oh god even with the side bosses down I’m getting bodied like a ragdoll.

My own Hack: Entire game hyped them up, then they get stronger so it was designed to be punishing and most of the time you are supposed to lose people. Had to add Miracle to legendary weapons so you don’t lose 4-5ppl.

So final thoughts: Either the boss is weak, and the side bosses are really strong for whatever reason. Or it’s a tough ass slog to reach them is really what makes the chapter hell and the last boss is just easier so you don’t restart. Or low capped game with Boss who hits caps, and sometimes above makes it really challening cause you can’t statball them and actually need healers and planning.

IMO: depends on your game. Is it one big bad? Are they strong? Or do they have lackeys that are annoying? How you make the final map (oh god Takumi plzzzzz) also drastically changes how “hard the final boss is”, but then they don’t remember the boss as hard, but the chapter. I went with the one big bad is better then 99% of the world in fighting route, and they can and will actively kill you

1 Like
6

Really bad idea. RNG on a final boss is absolutely horrible, because it’s not something the player can foresee or plan around

7

Fire Emblem is a game about maps, not individual enemies. At the end of the day, the boss themself, however weak or strong, is just a stat check, “do you have a unit strong enough to fight this?” There’s very little strategy past that to fighting a single enemy. You either have units strong enough and it’s easy, or you don’t and it’s impossible. So when designing your final boss, don’t just design a final boss, design a final chapter. The boss themself can of course be a very strong enemy, but the real challenge should come from the map as a whole.

If you want to emphasize it as a final boss fight, you can have events and map features that are part of fighting the boss — destroy these targets to weaken them enough to kill them, on turn X the boss uses some AoE attack or an ability that changes the map layout, etc., things that make the boss fight more than just “here’s a strong guy, walk up and kill him”. Ashera’s auras, Takumi’s wave blasts, Nemesis’s Ten Elites, Anankos’s multiple body parts (if the map wasn’t otherwise totally empty), etc.

4 Likes
8

My favourite boss in the series is definitely Ashnard. I love how he starts moving around the map and chasing you down, especially with that 10 move and 1-2 range making his threat range really scary. The only thing that would’ve made him better would be if other units were able to damage him as well, but perhaps with half damage.

1 Like
9

I think the same. He was a pretty good final boss and I think even if other units managed to damage him it would’ve been ok… But they had to bring up the ‘blessed armor’ thing.

What I really want from a final boss is… A group fight. Someone who forces you to use your entire army. Bosses like Dheginsea who needs teamwork to be defeated. You see, I’m particularly against making generic enemies OP by giving skills or high crit because we have so many of them to deal with. But a main boss ? It’s something to consider.

Pretty good idea.

Big Bad type.

10

How I would make a final boss
Well
For me it must to be hard
A very weak one isn’t a challenge that the final boss suppose to be.
It must have logic as final boss.
I don’t like those bosses that came from nowhere at the end of the game.
It should have a backstory and the gameplay would leads the player an idea about what it’s the final boss and how much it must be prepared to fight against it.
I don’t like those bosses that must be defeated by specific units
You may know what I mean
In many FE games we obtain weapons and characters that makes the final boss a piece of cake while the rest of the characters can’t even touch it.
I would like to make it hard but beatable by all the characters if they are very rised enough.
The final boss must be unique
Different
A class never seen in the game before.
That easy can reach the max levels capacity. With unique and powerful weapons that may OHKO units if effectiveness or critical and without them it makes real damage.
That’s as far what I can tell right now

1 Like
11

That’s a very valuable insight. A good backstory as well as some cutscenes of a boss can be quite effective. Take Valter for example. His continuos appearance and actions make some players want to kill him so bad. At that point you literally forget about how he is one of the most dangerous bosses in FE8.

2 Likes
12

I think that a final boss should be a test of the player’s skills: challenging but manageable if they have a good grasp of the game mechanics, but an absolute nightmare if they just try to win with brute force. Which leads me to believe that Great Shield is not a good idea, since it arbitrarily punishes the player regardless of his own skills.

One thing that needs to be taken into account is that, other than the lords, you don’t know which characters the player will have available: maybe they got a strong character killed, or didn’t recruit them, or benched them in favor of some other unit that caught their eye. And the same applies to weapons. So you need to design the final boss in a way that it is not easily beaten by the strong units/weapons but also doesn’t make the game unwinnable if the player didn’t play optimally.

Now, if we’re talking about how I would do it, implementing something like Fates Dragonskin (halves damage received and halves critical damage and offensive skills) would be a good start. Giving it multiple weapons and Triangle Adept so that people pay attention to the weapon triangle. Lifetaker to give it some conditional healing and discourage the use of summons. Things like that.

2 Likes
13

Exactly ! I completely agree with it. I hate it when one unit gets the chance to shine while others just sit back. Maybe they could become useful in different ways. If player manage to realise their potential that is.

14

But what if you want to save those weapons for later, when you might reaaaaally need them?

1 Like
15

I fully agree that the map is as important, if not more important than the boss.

That’s why I think Grima from Fire Emblem Awakening is a great final boss. On his own, he’s strong, but not unbeatable. And he keeps summoning enemies around him. He’s also not super hard to reach. And also… He is quite literally the map itself.

Other good final bosses that do this well are Nergal, who you can’t reach until you defeat the Morphs.

And also Sombron from Engage. I’m not gonna go into detail about what he does, because spoilers. But I think his final fight is very interesting, and it ties in well with the Emblems mechanic

16
Major Pokemblem Spoilers

Throughout the game, Gary cheats in little ways such as taking both the remaining starters after you choose yours and ambushing you.

In the final battle he starts by shooting the arrow trap at you, dealing fixed damage, which then alternates among 3 columns each turn. After you beat his team, he takes out his gameshark, resets the map, and summons megas / hackmons you could never obtain. His hackmon are Sturdy Shedinja and Wonder Guard Sableye (in a game without the Fairy type), so you cannot damage them through regular attacks/AoE. The only way to defeat them is with stuff like Counter or by getting them in line with the shooting arrows.

I think this is a well-designed final battle.

2 Likes
17

Those are some… pretty extreme ideas. Personally, I wouldn’t mind that kind of difficulty but it’s a bit too brutal for people who don’t like difficulty.

Spoiler for Pokemon

Oh and I love Gary. He’s one of those villains who always stays ahead of you and even after loosing he’s so salty that you just want to defeat him again. That kind of emotion can unexpectedly make you willing to fight a boss no matter how tough.

18

Oh, right. On lower difficulties

Summary

he only has the megas, no hackmons

1 Like
19

Another way if not with Health Bars would be multiple phases by respawning the boss and maybe reposition him and changing the map while you at it. In a way Sacred Stones Lyon and Blazing Blades Nergal are like the First Phase of their Final Boss. (Lyon actually transforms so that wouldn’t be too far of while Nergal is just the last encounter of a Boss Rush).

I do think that Bosses like Ashera, Nemesis and Duma from the OG games stick more in the head due to having interesting mechanics and taking a long time to beat. Duma and Nemesis especially pack in the entire map as the fight goes on which makes the Map itself a part of the final boss fight, a thing many overlook when it comes to the boss itself. There are Final Maps who only have this boss like Idoun, Fire Dragon and Demon King, therefore they don’t have the best reputation since the fight itself doesn’t take too long. (Unless, as mentioned previously, you count in Lyon as a first phase but it has a similar feeling that this part is seperated, like Nergal and Co from Fire Dragon.)

I think the ideal Fire Emblem Final Boss is both present and doing stuff in the battle while having a more or less tricky map to solve. Maybe use events to simulate him casting big long range attacks such as Dumas Earthquake attack or Takumis and Asheras Energy Waves. These events alone make for an interesting gimmick that can put the stakes higher. The GBA bosses and many others are just too passive and unintersting - it doesn’t help that they can be defeated with 1 or 2 not even overleveled units if done right. On the highest difficulty nonetheless. A Final Boss should feel epic, and so should be a final map. It should give you the feeling of a last, epic battle that will end the war that started the entire journey. Or whatever your game is about.

1 Like
20

That would probably require a large map… It was always bothering to me that why almost every final fights end without any casualties for the heroes. Well it’s because many people like to use ‘Godlike savestates’ or it’s because they are too intelligent or lucky.

Sure, a map could become tough by implementing multiple ambush spawns which may guarantee a unit’s death. But it’s still unfair to many because they will think this map is ‘RNG dependent’.

I fully agree with people who say that a final boss alone can’t make an epic ending. A good map and eventing is necessary too. I will rethink some ideas and put a poll.

EDIT : While we’re talking about maps, sacred war did a tremendous job in this regard. Large number of enemy units and player units in a big map ? Truly feels like a war.