I mean on one hand it makes sense…otherwise the HMB units you’d get would be turbo busted…imagine getting a Heath, Harken, Vaida, etc with 10+ shadow levels worth of HMB?
Yeah. I mean he could reduce their bases to compensate, but that would affect their stats in normal mode as well.
Maybe up their levels to give them less room to grow, but at that stage they’re already good straight-out-the-box. Or maybe just up the HMB slightly on the early-mid chapters by 2-3 levels and then spike it hard at later chapters.
Or maybe just up the HMB slightly on the early-mid chapters by 2-3 levels and then spike it hard at later chapters.
This wouldn’t work because Harken and Vaida join so late.
I think playable characters that receive hard mode bonuses would need a custom routine to fix their stats after the normal autolevel routine runs. Unfortunately, in FEBuilder, eventing is kind of restricted for FE7 and it doesn’t look like you can just set unit stats through event commands the way you can for FE8. So would probably need to write ASM.
You could port FE7 to FE8. Other things aside, the main victory of this hack is in the proof of concept, and the engine has alot more potential.
You could port FE7 to FE8.
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Nah that’s a lot of work that I’m not volunteering for. And if we’re talking about just solving the problem we were talking about with HM bonuses, it’s not necessary to port to FE8 to resolve it. Would just need to insert a custom ASM routine and call it on specific chapters for specific units.
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It’s already in the works. Check out this guy’s project: [FE8] Port FE7 to FE8 [NEW VERSION] - #146 by HauntRS_0337.
Surprisingly i found out that the chapters 1 to 5 in Binding Blade have a mechanic to them where reinforcements have their HMB’s halved. So maybe it’s something that can also be done in FE7 where recruitable units spawn as reinforcements with halved bonuses, which for most of them should be same as their vanilla bonuses and in some cases a very marginal improvement.
no it’s due to a glitch in FE6 where units loaded in at the start accidentally have their hard mode bonus applied twice.
well…shit…i guess that explains why the first few chapters are such a pain sometimes.
You’re still making the same mistake of trying to make this bend to your view of how it should be balanced.
Much like with PE this isn’t entirely ment to replace the original game, but put a spin on it. As it stands you may not entirely be aware just how broken skillsys can make a unit.
Likely there are reasons for every choice you seems to think is overkill like shanna for example her normal growths are
Hp45%
Str 30%
skill 55%
Spd60%
Luck60%
def10%
res25%
Before aptitude she was only granted +5% strength, +20% speed, -10% luck, +5% def and +10% res. to be completely honest having played PE the wing spear wasn’t enough to make her usable and after about 7 levels of 0 strength gains I benched her there are also other factors to take into account such as her having a -4 to speed to just use an iron lance from her garbage con, something all pegasus knights suffer from.
Thea wasn’t any better off so I ended up going sacae just because the peg sister quite litterally were useless with/without their spears. So having aptitude actually kinda made me use a unit I otherwise knew was trash to begin with.
As per the whole Klein/wolt/dorothy thing you actually hit the nail on the head, why would you use klein? Well in normal fe6 Klein is the one most people use due to the fact that he is the only one with the bases to actually be effective where as Wolt has the growths but it prone to being stat screwed and dorothy just sucks.
A lot of these units got such severe alterations simply just because so much of FE6’s cast are in fact so bad that it makes the game less fun.
The skills are a mess sure but for the most part units are perfectly fine.
i’m actually getting more bothered then I should with this but you just keep saying “nerf this and this and this” but not giving any ideas other than nerfs. There should always be a give and take, nerf one thing but buff another, only nerfing things isn’t balance.
Plus there’s the whole send home thing to take into account.
Sorry, It’s just been several days of “this needs to be nerfed” it gets tiresome.
Edit: i forgot about the whole rings thing but those are still a waste.
After further mulling I think i’ll rephrase my exasperation a tad.
You’ve given a greater desire to nerf things without giving many ideas of how to compensate for those nerfs.
You’re still making the same mistake of trying to make this bend to your view of how it should be balanced.
There’s no “mistake” here. We all have our own opinions on how games should be balanced, I just happen to be more vocal than most about mine and I’m allowed to state them in this thread.
Much like with PE this isn’t entirely ment to replace the original game, but put a spin on it.
Obviously it’s not meant to be a 1:1 port and it’s not like we expect no changes.
But as I’ve pointed out, and as you can also see in the older comments in this thread, this “remake” deviates pretty far from the source material and it disappointed a lot of fans of vanilla FE6.
You had baffling decisions like Wolt + Roy solo, which even ZeN realized was kind of stupid because it not only deviated far from vanilla, but it was just plain unfun.
You like it, I get it. And there are other people that like it the way it is too. Fine. But allow me to express my grievances with it.
As it stands you may not entirely be aware just how broken skillsys can make a unit.
This is a baseless statement. You’re totally off the mark and I have no idea where this is coming from.
- I’ve played Awakening and Fates. I FULLY realize how broken skills can make units.
- If you’ve read my posts, you would realize I’ve always called for rebalancing stats to take skillsys into account.
- I’ve also asked for more limited distribution/removal of proc skills or other OP skills e.g. Glacies (not good combined with siege tomes and just not good in general/shouldn’t appear on generics), Adept (same as Glacies), Great Shield, Re-Move, Tome Range +1, Point Blank, etc.
Likely there are reasons for every choice you seems to think is overkill like shanna
- Fyi stats are not the only thing that matter. Besides stats, Shanna already got buffed with a good Prf and access to Seraph Knight (I’ve already pointed this out btw).
- If PE/ZeN didn’t buff enemies so hard, they wouldn’t need to buff playable characters so hard to compensate.
- You don’t realize how broken fliers are. Shanna was never meant to be a Melady sort of combat unit/not all fliers had to be brought to Melady level of combat.
having played PE the wing spear wasn’t enough to make her usable
Idk what PE did exactly but if Wing Spear wasn’t good enough to make her usable they screwed up. Anyway, I’m here mostly to discuss ZeN’s hack because I don’t really care what PE did aside from what ZeN copied from them.
after about 7 levels of 0 strength gains I benched her
Again, PE screwed up and/or you got really RNG screwed. Again, I don’t really care if she was trash in PE. I’m more focused on how she’s balanced in ZeN’s hack. I’m on my 3rd playthrough and think she’s overpowered.
there are also other factors to take into account such as her having a -4 to speed to just use an iron lance from her garbage con
I think this is an obvious thing to take into account, and that’s why PKs tend to have overkill Spd.
Con is purposely left at a low value in vanilla and in these hacks btw so they can rescue heavy units.
Thea wasn’t any better off so I ended up going sacae just because the peg sister quite litterally were useless with/without their spears. So having aptitude actually kinda made me use a unit I otherwise knew was trash to begin with.
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree that Shanna/Thea are trash. Imo if you’re not deploying your fliers you’re doing something wrong.
As per the whole Klein/wolt/dorothy thing you actually hit the nail on the head, why would you use klein? Well in normal fe6 Klein is the one most people use due to the fact that he is the only one with the bases to actually be effective where as Wolt has the growths but it prone to being stat screwed and dorothy just sucks.
A lot of these units got such severe alterations simply just because so much of FE6’s cast are in fact so bad that it makes the game less fun.
So again, this went full circle. I’ve already told you that I get that there were trash units in vanilla FE6. But like I also told you, there’s a difference between making units OP and making units “not trash”. That’s the distinction you need to understand.
i’m actually getting more bothered then I should with this but you just keep saying “nerf this and this and this” but not giving any ideas other than nerfs. There should always be a give and take, nerf one thing but buff another, only nerfing things isn’t balance.
Ok, again it doesn’t look like you actually read my posts, and you’re cherrypicking.
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I have never said to only nerf things. I asked for Elffin buffs, for example. I also would like Marcus to actually have some of his Jeigan role back and think Marcus ORKOing things in early game (starting from C1) was something that should have been fixed awhile ago.
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You completely missed that the reason I’m calling for mostly nerfs is because playable units and enemies were overbuffed in the first place.
Plus there’s the whole send home thing to take into account.
You’ll need to elaborate on this. I don’t see how this ties into the discussion.
Sorry, It’s just been several days of “this needs to be nerfed” it gets tiresome.
Ok. But if you’re having a problem with me being vocal, please get your facts straight first, read my posts, and don’t put words in my mouth. And please don’t rehash the whole “but in vanilla some units were trash” for the millionth time.
i forgot about the whole rings thing but those are still a waste.
I think it’s a decent idea to make Elffin unique while buffing him. Like I said, it takes all of 5 minutes to set them up to work as intended.
With that said, it’s not the only way to buff him. He just needs to be buffed some way or another.
You’ve given a greater desire to nerf things without giving many ideas of how to compensate for those nerfs.
See above. Your assumption that there needs to be some sort of compensation for nerfs is based on your assumption that the balance is already good/fine.
You’re also failing to see that everything is relative and that a nerf to one unit/character is a buff to another unit/character if they are in competition with each other.
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At the end of all of this we’ve still hit the same impasse I suppose.
Some of these units did need some bolstering either due to bad bases or showing up on a map that matched horribly with them.
I think you misunderstood my statement on this one, I said “skillsys” not skills, since there are some skills that aren’t actually used I wouldn’t think you’d know about stuff like:
Double Lion: all weapons are Brave.
Rightful God: +100% skill proc chance
Blossom X2 growths 1/2 Exp gain.
Foresight: nullfies any skill and/or crit damage.
Colossus: x4 Atk damage delt (seems to ignore defense completely)
Axefaith: no durability loss and +luck*1.5 to hit.
Hawkeye: can’t miss.
As per the whole fliers thing, I admit I don’t value units who can’t at least fight
somewhat. I also think most mounted units get too much favoritism in the community, but that’s my personal way of seeing things.
As for the whole send home thing, remember how ZeN has that 50 units limit? Well some units would have to be considered dead weight otherwise theres too many units to not want to get rid of a few.
Honestly I can actually a few units that are directly intended to just be sent home, due mainly to the promotion splits added. Like Fir getting Hero.
I also may have just blanked on large parts of your comments over the past few days mainly due to being tired and how critical some of your posts have been. For that I do appologise.
Edit: some of this is likely phrased super awkwardly.
I think you misunderstood my statement on this one, I said “skillsys” not skills, since there are some skills that aren’t actually used I wouldn’t think you’d know about stuff like:
Double Lion: all weapons are Brave.
Rightful God: +100% skill proc chance
Blossom X2 growths 1/2 Exp gain.
Foresight: nullfies any skill and/or crit damage.
Colossus: x4 Atk damage delt (seems to ignore defense completely)
Axefaith: no durability loss and +luck*1.5 to hit.
Hawkeye: can’t miss.
Sorry I really don’t follow your logic here. If I already know about how broken Awakening/Fates skillsets can be, how can I not know how Awakening/Fates skills + more skills can be?
Rightful God is just a vamped up Rightful King. Hawkeye was a skill that could appear on Awakening Lunatic+ enemies.
Axefaith isn’t broken in ZeN’s hack afaik because he didn’t give it to any good combat units. Like, Saul has access to it but so what?
I’m aware of the other skills that the community created since a few weeks ago because I looked at the documentation and also tinkered with ZeN’s hack in FEBuilder.
As per the whole fliers thing, I admit I don’t value units who can’t at least fight
somewhat. I also think most mounted units get too much favoritism in the community, but that’s my personal way of seeing things.
Ok yeah…I don’t really wanna go down this rabbit hole right now. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
As for the whole send home thing, remember how ZeN has that 50 units limit? Well some units would have to be considered dead weight otherwise theres too many units to not want to get rid of a few.
The unit limit isn’t something ZeN decided himself, it’s a ROM limitation. Send Home chapter was just his workaround for it. Sorry I think Send Home has nothing to do with character balance.
I also may have just blanked on large parts of your comments over the past few days mainly due to being tired and how critical some of your posts have been. For that I do appologise.
It’s not that I don’t appreciate a lot of ZeN did. But praising stuff that’s already good doesn’t improve the hack. Sorry if I came off as pushy.
Well, that’s not entirely true. Several hacks actually have a good amount more then 50 units.
Two I can think of off the top of my head being Sun God’s Wrath (54) and Vision Quest (62).
Though I don’t know exactly how they get around it, and past 52 units the character list does bug out slightly but its purely visual.
Edit: please let it be known I am not saying this to knock ZeN’s work, this is purely for informational purposes.
The 50 has something to do with the fact you get a set of 5 units in the next chapter (i.e. if you didn’t get rid of 5, you end up with 55).
Regardless of the actual value for the max unit limit, it wasn’t something ZeN decided to add to get the player to cull bad units or anything like that. He only added Send Home to avoid breaking the game. In the OP of this thread, this is what he wrote:
“n the original Binding Blade, you could have a max of 51 characters in your barracks. My game will have 60 characters + Tower of Valni and Lagdou Ruins characters (The vanilla FE8 ROM could only have 50 or 51 characters at a time without causing problems to the ROM, so in order to circumvent this, I added a feature at the end of Chapters 18 and 19 similar to FEH where you can “Send Home” units you don’t use so you can recruit more in the end (of course, there’s also the kill a unit you won’t use alternative). You can send up to 5 units at a time and to compensate for you having to send home a unit, you get a Spirit Dust per unit sent home (Due to the Str / Mag split, I thought this would be a creative way of putting in Mag stat boosting items without changing much of the existing items you get through treasure, villages, etc.) If there was a way you could have more units without the ROM breaking, I would use it, but for now, we have to do with what we have.”
I know this, like I said though. There are in fact hacks with more than 50 units the player has access to at any one time without it breaking the rom.
How they do it I don’t know, but it has been done.
It could just be a side effect of actually porting over fe6 events and maps, I don’t know this isn’t exactly my field of expertise.
I don’t know either, but that it’s possible to get 62 or whatever is nice.
Even if ZeN doesn’t manage to figure out how to increase the unit limit, I think most people don’t mind Send Home anyway since you can only deploy < 20 units in any chapter.
It’s only really Ironman runs that can be adversely affected by Send Home and I think ZeN hasn’t taken unit losses into account yet (i.e. game doesn’t count how many units are actually active/alive but rather assumes you’ve hit the cap).
Yeah, to be honest Ironmans are another can of worms we’re better off not opening.
Heya all,
I just started this hack after spending some time deciding if I should go with Project Embers or this project.
What eventually swayed me over was the skills for characters. I really like this feature and was looking forward to seeing the new content!
I picked Difficult mode, wanting to have a nice challenge, but the skills are very, very overpowered in this hack! +10 defense on attacking, +20 resistance on attacking, +40 accuracy on attacking–these are huge numbers! And the stat gains can get your team very overpowered very quickly.
I need to play more to see how the skills work out, but so far, the game feels easier than vanilla FE6 on Hard Mode.
It’s hard to strike a good balance, and putting similar skills on every enemy doesn’t seem like a good idea to me, but I do think some skills can be dialed back in terms of the numbers themselves.
I don’t know how feasible it is, but I think adding more skills as scrolls, like in FE9 and FE10, would be a good way for the player to choose how to be overpowered. I also like how some events give experience to characters–maybe also include some skill learning events based on certain critera, or even support levels?
I’m really enjoying my time with the hack so far–thank you for making it 
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I picked Difficult mode, wanting to have a nice challenge, but the skills are very, very overpowered in this hack! +10 defense on attacking, +20 resistance on attacking, +40 accuracy on attacking–these are huge numbers! And the stat gains can get your team very overpowered very quickly.
I need to play more to see how the skills work out, but so far, the game feels easier than vanilla FE6 on Hard Mode.
Yup it is easier than vanilla FE6. Early game is much easier. Mid game there’s a slight difficulty spike due to how fast enemies are but overall still easier than vanilla because of skillsys/player characters are also boosted compared to vanilla. Endgame is much easier than vanilla due to having Galeforce, Tome Range +1, etc.
You’re not the only one critical of the current balance, and ZeN is aware of it/working on it.
It’s hard to strike a good balance, and putting similar skills on every enemy doesn’t seem like a good idea to me, but I do think some skills can be dialed back in terms of the numbers themselves.
The skills were community-created. I know a few of them are configurable but I don’t know if all of them are (i.e. most of them may be hardcoded in terms of the numbers). It would be nice if ZeN finds out how to modify the skills themselves though.
I don’t know how feasible it is, but I think adding more skills as scrolls, like in FE9 and FE10, would be a good way for the player to choose how to be overpowered. I also like how some events give experience to characters–maybe also include some skill learning events based on certain critera, or even support levels?
I hope to see this in the future as well. There’s already some cross-class skills in this hack thanks to personal skills. For example, Lugh has Miracle as his personal skill and I believe that’s a skill that’s learned naturally by another class. But skill scrolls would add a ton more freedom and interesting combinations.
Implementation should be easy (I believe an event command already exists for it). It’s balancing for OP combinations that’s the hard part.
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