Fire Emblem: Dark Stone - FE8, but you play as the bad guys! [Overhaul with a new story]

Nope, it is a war crime. This applies the Geneva Conventions on medical personnel - so attacks on them are war crimes, the efficacy of their healing doesn’t matter. The convention is only lifted if they engage in harmful acts towards your side (so bishops who can heal but also attack with light are not protected).

The only excuse you may find is that FE8 priests do not bear any one of the Geneva Conventions defined symbols for medical personnel. However that wouldn’t really fly in a serious war crimes tribunal.

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Those priest are so powerful they can heal in an instant a wounded soldier, allowing him to continue fighting, while a normal doctor would take at least weeks. In the fire emblem world, they are crucial military assets which must be targeted for a shot at victory.Just think of how hard Dark Stone would be if you needed to do it without staves.

Furthermore, unarmed priest can still carry offensive staves, like Berserk, Sleep or Silence and in the chaos of a battle, one doesn’t really have the time to asess what staff is carried.

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Again, efficacy does not factor in when we talk about war crimes. The Geneva Conventions aren’t about how to make a war easy, they are how to make a war humane.

The same logic can be used in real life - you execute medics because you claim that you didn’t know if they had a grenade or a pistol tucked away, or if they were soldiers pretending to be medics. Doesn’t help in war crime tribunals.

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The difference between offensive staves and the gun example is that they cannot be used by normal units. But they can be used by the priests and troubadours.

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Lyon is no regular criminal. Only hardened ones murder peoples in cold blood.

But frankly, yes, Lyon is kinda limited in his evil compared to the many people fighting for him. He gets one upped by Fomorthis, 3 of his generals, Tirado, Saar,all of Bazba’s bandits but Deni, Lieselot, Saaga, Orson , Hayden, Agrippina, Carlyle, Pablo and Medusa. Lyon at least does his actions to save Grado and want to use his powers to do good.

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My line about him being a regular criminal as opposed to a war criminal was a joke.

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Just to know, is it possible to kill Knoll in Chapter 6 ? Say you grind up Glen to level 20 in the arena of Serafew, promote him to Wyvern knight for maximal mobility, and have him ambush Knoll from the mountains with a javelin.

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Novala is the foil of Knoll, even in his growths. Knoll has great magic and poor speed, while Novala is speedy yet his magic is relatively low.

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Yo I’m replaying this and am worried about 27 boss. Where’s the eclipse tome?

Found a typo in the Ch17 Beran/O’Neil convo.

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Also, pressing Start to skip the first part of Orson & Monica’s conversation in Ch19 produces a black screen, but it’s resolved after the player selects an option (though they have to do it blind).

Incidentally, wow, that conversation is painful. I love that making Orson a main character forces you to engage with just how awful his situation is.

That said, is it intentional that Monica reciprocates his support? That implies there is something of Monica in there and she isn’t just a mindless husk. I expected something like the Zaccheus/Teresa one-sided support in Hag.

Edit: In chapter 20, after the fade-in before the bit where every unit gives a monologue, Caellach is briefly visible on the right side of the screen.

I didn’t mention it earlier, but there’s a similar issue in the post-scene of chapter 5 if Caellach captures Joshua; Joshua is briefly shown with open eyes when he’s first drawn into the scene.

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hello, this is actually my very first experience with fire emblem at all lol, ive watched some tier lists, and started my journey with fire emblem 7 legacy, but i havent completed it before i came across this hack. i havent played vanilla fe8 or completed any fire emblem games lol i’m a total noob! with that said i’m starting to get the hang of it and the internet has been helpful with some guides and suggestions.

i actually just created this account even though it’s some years old and i’m not sure if the creator still does any patches or update i figured i might as well post here… i’m only on chapter 8 and have really enjoyed it so far, i would of liked if tiffany wasnt forced to promote at level 10? i do not know if that’s the case for all trainee units in vanilla or if that’s for this hack but i also would of liked to see her become the super pupil ive heard about, with access to all magic types.

thats not really why i made this comment though, i just wanted to let you and others know that the game will freeze in chapter 8 if you use the “status” info thing to look at stats of a unit, on tirado and press up on controller input. it’s a replicable bug, not sure if it’s known or not but there it is.

also i saw another comment saying chapter 5x is pretty hard, and i agree, but it is doable without your units dying, i made my way towards the left side of the map, putting mines behind me, and once “your guy” gets the signal and does his thing, he can retreat to your other units making way towards him and he’s strong enough to take out some units himself, but it did take me quite a few resets. overall i think it’s a very good level of difficulty if me a total noob can complete all the maps so far without anyone dying.

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What a way to start lol. This hack relies on being familiar with the base material a fair bit, but hey, more power to ya! Glad you’re enjoying the thing.

As for the report… That’s odd. Nobody’s ever reported such a bug in that chapter before. I do know that the game occasionally crashes for unknown reasons, but this crash should not happen if you restart and resume.

If I may ask, what emulator are you using? And are you using save states? Save states can sometimes mess with things.

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Lieselott’s name is misspelled in the special conversations list for ch22.

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Huh, didn’t know a certain pyromaniacal witch cameoed in this hack

More typos to report:

(“gods” shouldn’t be capitalized)

Additionally, the last special conversation notification for Ch26 (Medusa & Deni) lacks a confirmation break.

Edit: The Rennac → L’Arachel talk in Ch26x behaves strangely. After you select the Talk command, you’re prompted to attack, and the talk only proceeds if you cancel out. The Nate → Deni talk in Ch28 has the same issue.

Edit Edit: More typos

(pretty sure that should be “bore” rather than “beared”)

Also, there’s a graphical glitch when listing the special conversations in Ch27:

Edit^3: Found another mistake in the chapter 10 ending branch if Pablo died:

Fire Emblem - Dark Stone10

That should probably be “We’d have heard it already.” (Or “We’d have heard about it already,” but that might be too long for the text box.) Additionally, Caellach doesn’t smile for his final bit of dialogue (“You’re a bag of surprises, Prince”) in this version, though he does in the version where Pablo survives. Don’t know if that’s intentional.

Edit^4: I think there’s a mistake with the smile toggles in the Pablo → Binks recruitment convo. Pablo remains smiling even when he sounds angry, and Binks stops smiling after he gets paid, when he should be happy.

Edit^5: Mistake in the Erkki → Wyatt conversation:

Capture

Should be “skillful”, just one L.

Edit^6: I think smile toggles are misaligned at the end of the Ch20 Aias → Caellach convo:

Edit^7: The smiles in the Melina → Selena Ch24 convo also seem a bit strange to me, but maybe that’s intentional:

Edit^8: Lyon is smiling in the Ch26 intro during a point where his dialogue sounds like he shouldn’t be:

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Finally I can give my full thoughts on this. Once again, your writing is good enough I would like to preserve it for future generations, so I’ve made an archive at Dark Stone Text Archive (Wasn’t entirely sure how to format the final chapters, so I lumped both route variations together. I can split them into separate pages if people prefer.)

A few questions for the archive:

  • What are Tick and Morgan references to?
  • Why are there vs quotes for Ruben in the data that are unused in gameplay?

Anyway.

The thing that stuck out to me the most in this hack was the scene at the end of Ch23 where Lyon insists the Demon King isn’t real, just an alter ego he adopted. I immediately thought that sounded way more interesting than the canon plot, and while I understand why you didn’t want to diverge from canon to that degree, I do find myself wondering what that scenario would look like. I’ve long disliked FE’s overreliance on what I call “spooky demon men” – ontologically evil (usually non-human) villains whose motivations begin and end at “Because I’m evil” – and Fomortiis is probably the most blatant example of that in the series. I dislike them because they’re such superficial characters – there’s nothing to engage with when the answer to “Why are they doing this?” is always just “Because they’re evil.” They’re such convenient villains too – there’s no moral nuance to fighting them and any violence against them is automatically justified.

(This is why I liked that you used human villains for Hag – even when a human villain is as pathologically evil as Sandraudiga, the fact that they are human still gives them depth. They force you to acknowledge the human capacity for evil – they are mirrors rather than scapegoats.)

As a result I liked the Lyon route a lot more than the Fomortiis route. (Which to be honest felt a little tacked-on – I found it weird that all the characters were so calm and optimistic in the epilogue when their commander is in the background cackling about how he plans to kill them all.) I think this is pretty evident in the fact that, while the Fomortiis vs. Eirika/Ephraim dialogues are pretty generic, the new Lyon vs. Eirika dialogue you added is quite possibly the best writing in the hack and geuinely made me tear up reading it.

Lyon is interesting because he’s the most sympathetic of the GBA villains, but in execution I found the canon’s handling of him very disappointing, as he’s ultimately just flattened down to his obsession with the twins, with his actual motive little more than a footnote in the plot. So I’m glad you focused on that for this story. (Also, I really liked how you redid the scene where he takes Renais’ stone to incorporate the most interesting parts of both versions.)

Personally, I don’t consider Lyon’s actions justifiable under any framework; the fact that the disaster will only affect Grado leads to the obvious solution of just evacuating, especially given Vigarde has such good relations with the other nations. Even if that wasn’t possible, he’s still choosing to destroy five nations to save one, which just doesn’t math. I see the subtext here as it being a matter of pride – Lyon doesn’t want to ask the other nations for help because it would make him look weak. He cares more about preserving the idea of Grado than the people of Grado – and of course, it can’t be a coincidence that his plan also results in him gaining absolute power over the continent. I was disappointed that the characters never seem to acknowledge this – Duessel is the only one who directly criticizes Lyon’s actions, but his objection is also based purely around Grado’s image.

I also found it hard to swallow that Selena and Glen remained loyal after learning the truth about Vigarde. You made an attempt to justify it with Selena, but I still found it a pretty big stretch, and I don’t understand why Glen sticks around at all. He’s clearly not doing it to stay alive, because he’s explicitly suicidal and actively chooses death in both endings. So… why? He says in Ch23 “Perhaps I should just kill both [Valter and Lyon] and be done with it,” and… yeah? Why doesn’t he? Even if Lyon isn’t responsible for Cormag’s death, Glen makes it clear he’s still disgusted by the atrocities he witnessed at Caer Pelyn, yet he expresses this by… helping Lyon commit more atrocities? I get that you wanted to keep all the villains playable, but endgame Glen just seemed really incoherent to me.

I do think the generals’ behavior works as a criticism of monarchism and authoritarianism – when your form of government is a cult of personality that punishes questioning and critical thought, it doesn’t matter how benevolent any one dictator is, because that’s a system with no guardrails against anyone who’s less than a perfect saint. Even “good” people who rise to the top of such a system are self-selected for having more loyalty than sense. The number of scenes where the characters went “This is clearly wrong, but my superior ordered it so I’m gonna do it anyway,” were painful to watch but at the same time quite understandable.

(That said, I don’t understand why anyone sticks around in the Fomortiis route – not only should they have no loyalty to someone who isn’t Lyon, Fomortiis can’t shut up about how much he hates humans and plans to kill them to the last, so sticking around doesn’t even make sense from a self-preservation angle. I mean, I guess real-life fascist movements demonstrate some people really are that dumb, but realistically I think most of the army would desert at that point.)

Otherwise, though, I really liked what you did with the side characters. It’s really neat how much you fleshed out and humanized characters who were only ever designed to show up for one map and then die. I particularly liked how sympathetically you portrayed the bandit characters – it never sat right with me the way that FE always uses them as one-dimensional punching bags, given that in real life the circumstances that lead to brigandry are often a lot more nuanced and involve failures at the societal level. Aias and Lieselott were also very relatable to me as an autistic person, and their paired ending was genuinely touching. I mentioned it earlier, but I liked what we saw of Orson too – the little things he does like remembering to bring Monica her favorite flower or always carrying sweets because Monica likes them demonstrate how much he truly loved her, and is a great contrast with Carlyle’s totally myopic love. (I loved how merciless you were to him, too. Get rekt Carlyle.)

I’m more ambivalent about Hayden. A big part of the appeal of AUs for me is seeing how things could have gone differently given the same initial conditions, so replacing a canon character with what is effectively an OC feels like cheating. (And after you said you didn’t make any lords go insane/evil this time around…) It was entertaining how much you leaned into his cartoonish villainy, though.

But overall, very enjoyable. (Though yeesh, FE8 map design has not aged well – I forgot how tedious all the “shuffle the entire army down a corridor in single file” maps were.) Though I don’t plan on actually playing Eckesachs since I hate FE6’s gameplay, I’m sufficiently curious to look through the story.

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Another compilation! That’s awesome. You’re doing some great work out here.

There were definitely some parts of Dark Stone where I felt constrained by the format. Morty route was essentially something I came up with late and added mostly to let the player play Evil God if that’s what tickles their fancy.
For what it’s worth, my idea for why people stick around in Morty route is essentially just fear. Or complete apathy in Glen’s case, but his lategame characterization is just generally a bit flimsy. If I wasn’t so keen on following the format he probably would’ve absconded at some earlier point. I tried to write him as like, too depressed to act on his feelings, but that reeks a bit of walking backwards from his established characterization in vanilla, I’ve got to admit.

Lyon being more in control is not fully made up - Ephraim route implies Morty only influenced him to an extent. The scene you mentioned is actually mostly based on their dialogue in that route. I like to interpret the split as Lyon’s pride making him be more straightforward with Ephraim so he could “beat” him as himself, by his own means; whereas with Eirika he hides more behind the Demon King façade because of his conflicting feelings for her. But he has agency in both routes, I believe. He is just not as good a guy as the twins like to think he is.

…Hayden was just me getting my evil shithead character assassination kicks. It’s funny how he’s one of the most controversial parts of the hack - for reasons that I find completely understandable, mind - but then in Eckesachs I similarly assassinated Jahn’s character but people liked it because it went the opposite direction of Hayden lol

(Not that Eckesachs was lacking in flaws. It’s been long enough that I can fully admit I am very much unsatisfied with my handling of Roy)

Anyway, for your specific questions:

Tick is a fairly obscure Eckesachs reference. I observed a few runs where Tick, who joins fairly early as a soldier and has basically zero noteworthy traits going for him, just kind of popped off and became obscenely powerful. This became a bit of an injoke that I later paid homage to in the postgame of Dark Stone.

Morgan is even more obscure. I grew fond of the guy due to injokes from before I started making hacks or joined FEU. That’s why he’s in every single one of my hacks. He’s the most forgettable son of a gun in the universe and I love him for it.

At one point I think I wanted to do battle dialogue for the whole cast with me. I think I just got bored of it and ended up ditching the concept altogether. Meh. Funnily enough, a similar thing happened in Hag, where Postgame!Me has like three quotes. I’m just not as much fun to write for as Sandraudiga.

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On it’s own it’s the weaker ending, but I feel like the Fomortiis ending kinda cements a theme with the story of the hack: You followed your heart. It chose wrong. With that in mind, it’s really cool.

Summary

It happens with a whole bunch of characters. Melina takes Duessel’s advice, it leads to her taking part in her daughters death. McGregor believes Lyon wouldn’t of had Natasha murdered, but he did. And finally, if you choose to follow Lyon to the end, it happens to the player. I don’t know if it was intended or not, but the Fomortiis ending almost feels like the less destructive ending, with his rampage limited to Magvel. Lyon meanwhile, ends up taking his conquest to other nations and continents entirely. The last heart that is followed, that leads to Lyon to doing this? The players own. You truly thought someone like this would stop at Magvel? The player has already played through Sacred Stones. They know the Demon King can be stopped. But you hold onto that faith that maybe Lyon is doing this all for a good reason… nope. The Lyon ending was the “bad” ending. (I mean nothing ends happy here unless you’re Nate and Deni or Bone and Zabba, and even then that’s only if you got their supports.)

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Describing killing everyone on an entire continent as “less destructive” than world conquest certainly is… a take. I see no indication Fomortiis will stop with Magvel, anyway, given he hates all humans and we’re told he wiped an entire universe clear of life before.

For me, I see it as an Evil vs. Oblivion conflict. Lyon wants to rule the world, Fomortiis wants to destroy it. For me it’s no contest; a living hell is, after all, still living.

(Personally, I didn’t pick the Lyon ending because I believed he could be redeemed; it’s pretty clear throughout the game that he’s already an authoritarian monster even without Morty’s influence. I picked the Fomortiis ending first out of morbid curiosity to see what would happen, then did Lyon’s after for completion’s sake.)

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