They are unlocked i believe in chapter 6 or so.
And you need to buy them.
For every level below cap they cost more so you are incentivized to train your units anyways
1 Like
yeah listen to resident cheesevil here
2 Likes
I genuinely donât remember what the hell I looked like in Dies or what the heck I did precisely.
Oh well.
I should really try Dies again sometime but⌠ehhhhhhhh
Do I really wanna waste a rare long weekend for me on this?
⌠donât answer that question.
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Dies is unironically a once in a lifetime experience I cant recommend it enough
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playing dies for the first time is like nearly passing out from choking
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I know nothing about 99% of the people got casted here, so I feel kinda sorry that my first impression of most people gonna be something like a unit with high Def and zero Mov on a map where enemies ignore Def.
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just let the vantage unit murder all the ignore def enemies, simple as
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ComputerHead is unironically a top tier unit
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Computer head is a magikarp
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The more I think about it, the more busted the mirror ring looks. I think it might eclipse the Reliable Pin in terms of how much it breaks the game?
Things I want to test:
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If a unit of lv. 21+ mirror rings into an unpromoted class, does their level drop down to 20? If not, what happens when they gain a level? Can this let Alguien snowball by getting multiple levels with her nutty growths?
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Do units that mirror ring into a monster class become trauma-immune? Do they lose the ability to equip armor? Is there a convenient Wight or Deathgoyle available after you get the mirror ring so that units can preserve their weapon ranks? The Baelista in ch. 11 is an option for units who want to use bows, but not all units want to be bowlocked.
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Are kitsune/wolfsouls inherently trauma-immune? If so, they seem like good classes to put your carries in (especially Ultimiter, whoâs mainly held back by his non-immunity to trauma), as the stone bonuses should easily make up for a lack of armor access and should make their offenses even more overkill. EDIT: It seems like this is the case, although I havenât tested it.
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The mirror ring forbids normal promotion, but does it also block plot promotions (Parr), item promotions (Ysor, Retina, Epicer), and Rivianâs transformations? If it doesnât, this seems immensely exploitable, as Dies Emblem uses the difference between class bases for its promotion bonuses. Going from, say, zombie or wolfsoul to Parrâs tier 3 promotion could grant an obscene stat bump.
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Mirror ring class changes donât affect your stats, or so Iâve been told. Do mirror ring class changes affect your MOV?
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The mirror ringâs existence bumps Alanzo up from meme-tier to potentially as game-warping as Camdar. Copy the Mogall in ch. 11 to get trauma-immunity and light access, then give Alanzo tomes, including Bolting. His SKL will still be 0, so give him the reliable pin as well. He can now obliterate anything in Bolting range with his 1,000 MAG without suffering trauma, and will rapidly accumulate levels and thus bulk. If his MOV remains 0, he can still use the warp pendant to move around. This assumes, of course, that Alanzoâs magic cap of 1,000 is from personal caps and not the vending machine class. If it is from his vending machine class, itâs probably not worth it to give the reliable pin to him instead of your mounted Granz+ user. EDIT: Scratch all of this, the cap is indeed tied to the vending machine class.
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EDIT: This is a bad idea, because reclassing Alanzo means that youâre effectively locking yourself out of the vending machine gacha . Can Alanzo ease the stress of Retinaâs join map by copying the halberdier from the arena? Even with 0 SKL, his 30 STR will probably OHKO anything he hits (and can help break through the head guard boss). If copying the arena halberdier works, Cres might also benefit from copying a halberdier so that he can use some of the staves that Eric doesnât have room for. Probably not worth doing before Cresâs DoN gaiden, though.
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Is there an easy setup to get Alguien attacked by Raymond IV to copy Raymond IVâs mounted gun(!!!)+sword class? Mounted units canât pilot the Soulhawk, so it might be harder to get Alguien to lv. 20 in Raymondâs class than in veteran, but A. her SKL base is 30, so she doesnât actually need a level to contribute as a gun unit, and B. there are other ways (medkits, IIRC?) to gain flat amounts of exp; piloting a vehicle is just the easiest. Alanzoâs shield might be necessary in order for Alguien to survive an attack from Raymond?
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Can I tame God by forcefully giving them a Mirror Ring, then attacking them with a monster, then using Rammâs Hunt+Tame commands? This is unlikely, as that map is probably Kill Boss, and if it is Kill Boss, Ramm wonât have an action to tame them with after capturing them. It being possible would be really funny, though.
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What happens if I use the above method on an enemy forum member?
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Does Camdarâs personal class have stat caps of 1? If so, can it be used to reduce ATHATHâs stats, allowing him to use Gaijin Cheese to raise his SPD up to the 30 needed for his secret (in a new class, of course)? EDIT: His classâs caps are 1, but his class bases are not 1.
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If a unit copies a mage or a sage , will they learn the map-wide buffing skill that those classes have? Reverscard might be a good candidate for becoming one of those, as magic has some utility tomes and most of Reverscardâs offense comes from the underdog vest instead of their STR .
EDIT: I forgot that monster cores existed. Iâve edited some of these bullet points to reflect that.
EDIT2: I have performed some codediving.
EDIT3: Realized that reclassing Alanzo will screw you over long-term.
EDIT4: Apparently, monster cores donât work on the mirror ring.
1 Like
Uh-huh, I realized that too about AlanzoâŚ
Unfortunately I realized this a little too lateâŚ
(Cries at the prospect of redoing the desert items chapter again).
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hey so i beat dies and got every ending.
dies is a weird beast to talk about and i feel silly to earnestly talk about it. but itâs a sandbox that hits very specific things in my brain that make it enthralling to come back and engage with.
its very much my kind of game and one that, to my own surprise, let me better figure out where and why my tastes lie where they do. so i dont regret playing, i had fun lol.
this is not a game for alotta people but i think the fact its finished is impressive and i believe everyone who signed up should at least get far enough to see themselves slandered.
but besides that, with dies knowledge under my belt hereâs like. the most comprehensive attempt at tiering everyone in dies. largely done in terms of overall genuine use and capability for the sake of the bit.
Tierlist Explanation
The No-Shits
Vyland is the undisputed toptier, for the low-low price of giving a D rank gun and some money. You get a unit that scales hard, has no trauma, doubles and kills everything. Vylandâs only real risk is a lack of bulk but you can dodgetank most things hard enough that vyland just goes fast. Then her unique weapon allows her get kills frankly nobody else can realistically get. You put in very little and she becomes the best.
Lesk comes fairly comparable to Eric, gets a great promo that grants good bulk, and benefits well from arena investment to let him level harder. His growths can casually scale out and let him get really strong without any cheese. Plus he can chug more potions mid-map for even more mandates of heaven and more growth boosts, just to level harder.
Krimâs Krim. Krim does everything youâd want for much of the game, though I think with time Krim becomes less someone you NEED to rely on. But câmon this unit fucks up everyone from the getgo and rarely stops.
Ramm. Oh Ramm. Rammâs a menace, not for combat, but thereâs so many incredibly powerful monsters in Dies that being able to tame some gets you far. Especially when Ramm can reliably kill most at base, being able to get bulky, powerful units with anti-trauma is something hard to deny being just the best shit ever. (Seriously, capture that monster on Cresâs chapter, you know the one.)
Ultra gets people extra turns, powerful summons (who can dance!), great combat, good stats. Heâs so many things that even if he never sees combat himself. You at least get another dancer with a whole mechanic for even more turns. Utter menace, he is.
Ysor might be the first odd pick up this high. But his benefit for investing lets him do amazing things, and even if you donât go all in, he can do innate merciful combats and occasionally galeforce. He does a ton only he can early on, and he rewards you massively for keeping him on hand.
Then, KD. KD is flexible, letting your units do more damage to bosses. Effectively being able to attack far more times than he should. While also getting the benefit of peopleâs skills, meaning you can let him be there to help make combats reliable, get extra chip, anything, really. All on a unit who also simply just does great damage.
Plus, with guard stance, even at worst, KD becomes a backpack for any amazing gunner on the team to eat more hits, extend out more, and let units like Vyland or Rye really threaten everyone they come across.
Camdar meanwhile just does things nobody else can do in the time he can. Thereâs so many maps with clearcut threats at far range that he simply teleports to and can remove easily.
The Refreshers
yasakoâs the best even if herâs give trauma. sheâs your earliest one and she does a ton. even if pregnate of heaven was really fucked up.
bobby has summons and a rescue/refresh, take command has good synergies for risk takers and his ability to provoke enemies from a distance lets you dismantle problematic formations. heâs endlessly useful, if held back by often not needing some of what he supplies.
[REDACTED] is funny, tons of refreshing lets you get some crazy shit, and alpha strike lets her do multiple refreshes if you arenât gonna just use them for warps/rescues each time.
lowres is lowres, heâs awesome like as youâd expect. bit more limited but he can refresh a few times, and one-per-map can do a fe4 dance.
emmettâs subway ability is fine, but being able to conditionally dance for units as long as any other refresher is fielded gives him some wonderful utility
you cant go wrong with literally any of them because theyâre all letting your big guys do more. which you want anyhow.
Distinct Squad
It may be tRUe, that Ruâs good, but lategame punishes the hard wilspec. But otherwise, you get someone close to Ysor who comes out the gates hitting hard, surviving well, and puts in the work from day one until the game ends. Great unit would train again.
Parrâs simple, he comes in and does work. Ransom gets you some wonderful allies who are all immune to trauma. But beyond that, his simplicity in just having good numbers makes him special and especially standout, here.
Ryeâs got it all, the best weapon type, an amazing starting kit, amazing bulk due to only taking one damage a hit. Pseudo-anti-trauma in the form of rice-shower, you can always be certain that Rye can pull a certain number of enemies without risk and likely kill them without trouble.
Zappy sucks early on, but he can outpace exp gain somewhat early on, and dedication gets you someone with a unique promo that gives even a decently-grown Zappy become a menace mercying everyone with a training sword. His bulkâs also shockingly not bad. Keep 'em early for being a gunner, keep 'em late for being the slickest 8 mov swordie in the world.
Morris sucks at combat but who cares lmao. Infinite turnwheels every turn is astoundingly good, only held back by it being only within that turn (so not correcting turn-spanning mistakes), and not really being all that needed most of the time. Absolut shoe-in for any map with a vehicle to drive in, though.
Eric gets to be the only staffer, functionally, and he has so many useful personal tools. Alongside his genuinely great bulk, good class, man does alot well, and Lose lets him solve any bosskill map in an instant.
Dittoâs is Xane, you get why this is good.
Loogâs one of the first fliers, and while he wants some early levels to better brave lance, he otherwise comes in. Gets you great, powerful gear/armor, and lategame gets to be one of many who pivot super well into pasting foes with the dusting lance.
Alice, Sherlorca and Olivia are oddly really similar, both just kill things, donât care about trauma (or in lorcaâs case, too far in to worry about it now) or your bulk, and eat hits for days.
Nereid can get galeforce, which is pretty cool, her weaponâs great, and she absolutely can brutalize enemies on her own. Sheâs a great ally to the squad through and through.
Shrimperor has the undisputed best provoke in the game, and also gets to zero out enemy luck on top of that. Degen or efficient, you get someone who can and will just pull insanely hard, and with how rough later formations can be. That has a grossly huge amount of moment-to-moment use with how far you pull.
Sigma is a two-pronged situation. Training him for his innate mercy sword is good, and being speccâd into WIL gives him many of the same benefits/risks as Ru does, though heâs not as good about it. Though, it also means more people are liable to be able to gain paragon off him, which really lets you soar.
PKlucky is sort of a diet Lesk/Eric, being captured on deathâs nice, and taking reduced damage is never bad. Especially with a map effectively made to feed kills to 'em, so they slot in very cozily and never really stop once you invest.
Goldâs Gold. Either you train her for someone who effectively gets anti-trauma post promo, or keep her in the base class and slap underdog on. Then watch as she ohkoâs most everything forever. Killing isnât special, but she does it early and better than most for very little.
Telos gets to be a training project right before a long-drawn out map good for training units. So he comes in, gets to be really good, and his stipulation is really easy to work around what with great growths, decent bases, a good promo, and skills that let him act multiple times a turn.
Cadbury gives people galeforce and has galeforce. Of course theyâre gonna be good.
Now, from here on out, things get vaguer for my own sanity, and as units generally become less notable in key things they do that wouldnât just be super obvious. Still, itâs dies, donât let some dickhead online tell you you cant train yourself cause youâre bad. Even if itâs objectively true.
The Semi-Notables
Renoud can tank, even if it eats HP slowly, and even if not. His iffy start keeps him from being higher up, even if his potential is astoundingly good, and the looming risk of losing mov makes me scared every time he levels ):
CH comes in early on when actual training projects are fairly lax, the PRFâs great and accurate, too. This unit just comes in at a time when all hands must be on deck, and one given focus early lightens the load on so many earlygame maps, itâs not even funny. Great unit.
Epicerâs fun, slowly scaling swordie with fun potential to be a pretty nutty est if you let her chill.
Blobleâs great, you can bring him most of the game and never see him wear out his welcome. Though he does slowly but surely wane in usefulness and bulk with time, heâs great to come in and do work.
Camdle gets everyone +1 to offensives, buffs Rivian, and has huge movement, humble, but incredibly helpful
Citrus sucks ass for a while, but frankly, eventually he hits a stride that can make you forget the torment from before enough that he balances out. Plus, idea guy is just such a funny skill to make you trip up calcs on.
Amatsum just kills shit incredibly hard, and occasionally can EP with the best of them.
Sphealâs spheal, his combatâs good for a while with bombs/guns, and he uses them better than anyone else. Though his accuracy slowly wanes and taking up two deploy slots can be a high sell for a while (even if heâs technically net neutral overall on space taken) Still, with two free-rides he comes back from being neutral and always means you get to bring another unit onto the field.
Generic Gamers
Maruâs late, but vantage with some of the more potent knives, especially the special ones, means you have someone who puts in work humbly and incredibly effectively.
Zane captures well for a while, but eventually wanes off in usefulness, even if tomes let Zane still contribute here and there.
Omnifox isnât great, but if trained or given favoritism can at least put in the work and make solid use of things that you may otherwise be too worried to give Telos. A good Omnifox does some great things, though, especially with stuff like Painbringer to be the ultimate debuffing menace.
Alanzo can stall, and that allows some amazing cheese with barrier, but often you donât need it. But still, this opens up tons of strats that may otherwise not work, and being deployed on map allows you to farm some stuff you otherwise couldnât
Riv/Lumi both have an awkward midpoint and a great endpoint where they come back into amazing relevancy.
Darrâs simply here as an aggregate for all summons. You can get some bad ones, or a really good one like Gannondorf, Darr himselfâs nothing to write home about.
Athath can trade some huge as hell bits of loot to others, and itâs worthwhile to fiddle a few things, but I think with time you realize much of the switcherooâd loot isnât all that great to spend a deploy on.
Then thereâs the kirbys, Trybel just has a great position to try to train and gets the most worthwhile bang for buck in trying. 3x innate brave and boosted levelups can get you far, and even if not, you lose very little to giving 'em a shot.
I didnât think Slater would be this high when I first played, but if you know you know.
Green does one job, but one job really well. Forcing you gormless freaks to trade, and honestly, unlocking Slaterâs power is good enough. But beyond that, unmitigated trading really helps with letting people move those speed-boosting wings and other types of loot around. And at worst, you get a hard-hitting Dusting Lance user to nuke people with.
Most unmentioned here do pretty good to great combat utility but donât bring TOO much else to the fray, though Head Guard does help with some bosskills, and has some pretty damn good stats.
The Job Brigade
Everyone here largely does something. But itâs not enough to push them over. You can make a case for many of them, if Iâd mostly argue that youâd be better off slotting in some of the above instead.
Still, notable mentions do exist here. Bpat for example gives way to a few incredibly helpful kills to be pulled off, and his applicability to do so whenever gives you the flexibility for when you just need One More Mercy, or giving someone bow weakness, or to eat more damage for a kill.
To lategame guys who, while good, really just exist to debuff, or simply just get shunted off because tools they need to work are simply better elsewhere. Though, people like Lonk are nice for any maps where youâre really going to sac a ton of people.
Still, you could train them, your outcome just wonât likely be as good, even if I find stuff like Ignis combat to be hype, to a huge Retina hell-slash chain. Or most majorly, just watching doob hit everyone with thoron and dying from the reflected damage lmao.
The Pits
Many of these units could be good, but often just get slated with a lack of real use beyond maybe a map or two due to any mix of bad stats, bad circumstances, or just actually no real reason to use.
Like Doc, poor, poor Doc. Funny user but just has the most middling combination of stats possible that I think not a single person will ever deploy 'em.
Though occasionally you do get people like Markex, who puts in some stellar use on a single map, same with tweetybird. It feels great to find use for some of these units, and while all of them decidedly can do some great stuff with effort. Most of that effort is similar to the same youâd get from generally using many of the above.
No matter your run, youâll probably pick a favorite or two down from here.
The Void, where no hope lies.
This is really just gonna be dishonorable mentions, and to make it clear that I do think some of the units here are actually worse to deploy than Alex. Who I still thinkâs horrible to pick, but at least can synergize with shameless units and be a good combat unit on his own merit.
Beyond that, many of them are just out and out terrible. Tezuka makes every map wildly harder, INeedAName is just that bad, HVP cannot be saved.
Tun will never make it, sadly, angels do not win here, and no amount of talking about cum will save Gero or their soul.
Aolornnâs one I wish I could use, because a sheer-invisible unit is really funny, but the unit is just too bad. I canât do it, even for the bit.
Quorocâs likely the third worst here, no matter the effort you put in, no matter the difficulty. This unit is almost inconsolably bad and every other monster unit besides the literal chicken can do more, and better. Thereâs little here to get much use-wise from, and largely Iâd actually be pleasantly surprised to see them used.
Now, Jason and Broker may be the actual two worst, in my mind. Though itâs hard to say which is worse than the other.
Jason, is much like Quoroc, frail with a bad start that takes tons of digging to get out of. Someone whose stats make even having innate anti-trauma un-compelling due to just being far too weak to use it well. With a unique weapon that requires using other bad units to function. All while having a chance to perma-die any turn, becoming a living liability, even with how good Shameless is on others.
Broker, meanwhile, while decently strong, bars other benefits from getting, is frail, and whose only skill requires more or less not using Bobbyâs summons to their real potential all for a polearm user that doesnât even do all that much.
Plus are you really gonna field Richard Nixon, whatâs wrong with you?
The Gotoh Gamers
Now, hereâs the rest, all units whose one big thing is that their endgame moments are huge contributors. But much like using Athos to solo the final maps of fe7, itâs not reasonable to quantify them as part of anything but a unique, personal tier.
Mag is the primo user of the MENSA Badge, her PRF lets do massive damage at 1-2, with a skill that makes her an amazing dodgetank and revenge-killer who doesnt have to worry about anything.
Doot drops mind on all foes by 30, so you crit and hit like a motherfucker, and dodge way, way easier. Doot smoothes things out wildly.
Now, Krow, is only here for a unique set of utility you can probably figure out at endgame, being someone who can come in. From base-level, and decimate many of the threatening enemies as if it were nothing.And do that twice a turn, too. 10/10, best accidental gotoh ever.
Levin buffs everyone, has tomes whilst mounted, Levin is just that damn good.
Nikkiâs simpler, but the advice on deploy is welcomed greatly, and a latestage swordie with money to spend who can slap some brutal debuffs on your enemies can never go wrong.
And last of all, is Nicee. Nicee gets you some funny skill combinations right before the very end, and is absolutely worth using a charger on to maximize how many potent, right before endgame tools you can get your hands on.
and if anyoneâs bored enough to ask more/contend some of these i might answer or i might not idk. iâm probably gonna go stare at paint dry for a week now.
14 Likes
Did the Cres gaiden get changed? How are you taming big boy when you canât bring Ramm ? Or are you referring to Cresâs join map?
Honestly surprised that Moris isnât SS, having turnwheels drastically changes the game and they feel like an auto-deploy in any map you can deploy them in.
Iâm surprised that Spheal and ReversCard arenât higher just for being free deploys (even post-Spheal nerf, once you get the Free Ride scroll).
Your explanation for me is in the wrong section of the tier list explanations (compared to the chart). IMO, ATHATH uniquely enables other units to do degenerate things, like giving tamed monsters new gear, giving Zappy a Wrongdite (unless being able to trade it off of Bobbyâs summons was patched out?), giving Epicer the Spear for her Master Knight promotion, and being the easiest/fastest way to get the brave sword + canto+ ring combo onto Camdar. Is Spensirâs gifting enough to get Camdar that gear in preps once he joins? I havenât run the math on it recently. I also havenât seen Green yet, so maybe they join early enough to make me redundant?
Iâm surprised Alguien didnât get a higher tier placement just for being a really really good gun unit if mirror ringâd into dragoon. She has 30 DEX at base and can get enough money from selling her starting sword to afford pretty much any guns and/or ammo she wants.
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i think kit shpuld be above everyone else for beint the goat
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Deathgoyles and (later on) Dracodragons do more than enough, those are the things I was referring to by Cresâs chapter.
As said with Moris, most maps you donât need em and frankly I often find Iâd have a smoother time without Moris and instead just having another problem solver.
And yeah, Athath does activate degen stuff but largely I find the stuff you allow units to do generally isnât actually that much of a game-changer or useful 9/10 times. Most monsters you want are kitted out desirably as is. Wrongdite I liked less-and-less each run 'cause often when Iâd want the added range, a gun let zappy do more. and Cam is just really easy to arm up well enough. Even if you canât get the canto ring on Cam on join, that map doesnât much necessitate it for what Cam really brings value-wise there. Where he should enough by the next, if nothing else.
You open up new things but theyâre often just comparable to playing it straight in effectivity, yknow?
Algâs so low because sure you can ring her, but Iâd rather have a gunner who can actually eat hits, or at least scale into that. Cause getting kills isnât that hard, so you need some other types of sells. Which ends up meaning I value most gunners over Alg, who didnât also need mirror ring and funds thatâd better help elsewhere more.
growls like a wild cougar
donât you ever FUCKING question my tiering again doot im gonna drop you down a tier.
3 Likes
how would you drop me down from my one role in the game, im curious
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Turn you into a pickle
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Fair enough.
Oh, also, why is Spensir so low? Isnât he an antitrauma unit with cracked stats at base (and a tangible benefit to feeding him levels)? Is he just overshadowed by the deathgoyles?
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His stats in execution felt like an awkward median where even in the 0% run I did (where I really thought heâd shine), his bases often leave me wanting more out of him and missing stuff often enough that his anti-trauma was nice, but not enough to justify him over a higher tier schmuck. The extra moneyâs theoretically nice but the base amount able to be givenâs already enough.
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Missed the Cres Gaiden⌠dang it.
Maybe in the future if I ever replay DiesâŚ
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