Should devs strive more for shorter hacks?

So been thinking about this but do yall think devs and specifically newer devs should try to make shorter hacks instead of longer hacks? What I mean is making a 30 chapter hacks is tough work and I think I see a lot of new devs wanting that, but considering the skill, dedication and in general just assets needed to make a long form hack, would you advice newer devs to make short form hacks?

Poll below: imagine if I said I wanted to make a 30 chapter hack as a new dev, what length would you recommend?:

  • Long hacks (26-30+ chapters)
  • Medium length hacks (13-25 chapters)
  • Short hacks (1-12 chapters)
  • Whatever length they want and can handle
0 voters

I’m also interested in listening to yall’s experience in deving your hacks, was scope a big hurdle and what does it take to finish deving a hack.

(P.s this isn’t a way to like prohibit new devs to only short hacks just thought it could be a nice perspective thing.)

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It depends what your reason for hacking is. Some people start out hacking because they have some dream hack they want to create; others start out hacking because they want to test themselves/see what they can do, usually gameplay/wizard-wise.

A larger emphasis on story generally leads to longer hacks. If creating and finishing a product is your main goal, obviously a shorter hack will likely follow. I like to imagine there is a silent portion of this community, like me, who creates their hack purely out of personal enjoyment, and does not obsess over getting a finished product out to the public - not that that’s a bad thing, either.

No one should ever be told how long their hack should be.

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I hate giving dogshit wishy-washy advice like ā€˜lol just follow your heart’, but, in this instance… lol, just follow your heart.

Don’t make a burner campaign. If you are only making a campaign out of the desire to get used to the tools so that you can make the ā€˜real’ one later, it’s going to show in the final product, and it’s probably going to be a waste of effort, just something in the way of getting to what you actually want to do. Maybe even something you give up while making, and never get the chance to do what you actually wanted to begin with. Plenty of excellent hacks were their designers’ first.

So, no. Go for the real deal first, regardless of length. That will inspire you to get it across the finish line. You’ll be inspired to build your skills and stretch yourself to make it as good as it can be, and that passion will shine through. I would say be wary of truly long campaigns, 30+ chapters, but I’d say that to anyone, novice or otherwise.

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Guess it just depends really.

I know in my case, I’m making a smaller hack, and originally it was just to make something concrete enough to show to people and say ā€œHey, I’d like to make a bigger hack but I can’t make it by myself. Would you like to work with me? Here’s this smaller hack that shows I can pull my own weight.ā€

But then I was able to finagle it in a way that not only works for the bigger hack I wanted to make, but actually supplements it too story wise. So… yeah, I guess whatever the dev feels like they can handle honestly.

mate I TRIED to plan a 10, 12 chapter hack, the length just kept balooning, I couldn’t set my foot down until Seventeen.

And now I’m being convinced to push it a little higher again. We’ll see, we’ll see. I’ll have to see how the story flows once I get to it.

I think making shorter games is better. Make the player want more instead of make the player want to be done with it already.
Like make it as long as you think it needs to be, so what needs to be done can be as good as possible. Although of course I also enjoy putting in unnecessary details, just don’t put in unnecessary filler.
And I am aware that that can be a push and pull, a good story may require bad gameplay or good gameplay can’t be justified within the story, which is why priorities matter, like what you want your game to be decides what is more important.

But of course ā€œjust do how long you want to doā€ is also true. Kinda feels like a cheat answer though.

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I think they should.

When you have decided to make a shorter hack, that just means you will be capturing your players for a shorter time. This in turn should get you thinking about how you can create something memorable and unique. Maybe its a new mechanic, custom animations, controversial design decisions, ect. Shadow of the Colossus is one of the most memorable games out there, but its not because its long. Its because it tried something different.

Ideally, a short hack can help a beginner dev figure out how to pace themselves to create a finished work, especially if this is their first experience in game development.

On the other hand, you can be like me and go gung-ho and put your all into a 30+ chapter hack/4 hour long game as your first work.

Idk man it really is a ā€œgo by feelā€ situation. You learn how to game dev if you go either path even if you dont make a fully finished game in the end

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dat man u gotta just make the hack instead of making community posts i believe in u get out there and print smash that mfin ā€œwrite to romā€ button pick up ur bits and hit the bricks 100

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Honestly if you have enough spite in your system you could do a 200 chapter hack

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I voted for ā€˜mid sized hack’ - but I also believe you should follow your heart and make the hack you want to make - be guided by the aim and passion in the depths of your creative soul, and create the number of chapters that best suits your vision…

BUT, even with that said… less is more. Within the bounds of your vision and the back you want to make, try to be disciplined in the number of chapters you pump out. Yes, be disciplined and true to your creative vision, simultaneously. Why? Because every chapter should DO SOMETHING to advance the hack, both from a story and a gameplay perspective. The player will quickly identify wasteful, superfluous, or repetitive chapters and they’ll feel their momentum wane as the story slows down, and they might lose interest.

This discipline - keeping everything as concise as possible - isn’t unique to Fire Enblem rom hacking. It’s a key part of any kind of story telling. Cut the fat. Keep it lean. Only keep what is truly necessary. If you have that mindset from the start, you’ll probably end up closer to 20 chapters than 30 chapters, and your hack will be better off for it.

Full disclosure: the hack I’m currently working on, if you count all of its gaidens… is 35 chapters. Not all of those chapters are created equally in terms of length, but it’s not a short hack. And yes, in my point of view, all 35 chapters are necessary! :stuck_out_tongue:

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I am literally making it rn lol. Just gotta write chapter 4

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but what about file size? I doubt 1 GBA rom could handle it.

aim high, why not

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there’s a 452 chapter hack as above

and there are also multi-patch hacks

you can just do that

Generally I think it’s the dev’s choice, but that choice definitely should be motivated by what the dev wants to achieve with their hack. Something like Dream of Five is almost required to be long, it would be incredibly difficult to cut content from it and still have it be a well-paced game. On the opposite end, if something like Storge was 25 chapters, it would have a very hard time remaining replayable, and your choices would both matter less in the long term, but also feel more stressful, as you are locked into them for longer.

Both Storge and Dream of Five are good hacks, but they are good because the devs had an understanding of what made them fun, and reflected that in the length. And that isn’t to say that you can’t have a short core-FE experience, there are single chapter hacks made for Marth/Celica/Sigurd or otherwise that are compelling, and that doesn’t mean gimmick (I do not mean this derogatorily) hacks can’t be long. Hag in White, which I just finished playing, has a gameplay premise that can be explained in a single sentence, and that hack cooks super hard with a full FE-game runtime.

But yeah, if you have a 13 chapter long idea, make a 13 chapter long game. People will play it.

Ah that makes sense.

It doesn’t really matter, it depends on what story you want to tell, and what your approach is, and what risks you want to take, don’t let length intimidate you.