Proposal for FEU changes

#1

So, as of the last few months, we have been able to observe pretty large problems with FEU; both the Forums, and the discord.

I’ll try to keep this short, so allow me to start with the forum changes I’d like to see.

First off, as of recently, there has been an abuse of the badges and like system by some users. They have been spamming and using up their 50 daily likes for badges. The problems with that are:

-That the badge system is basically useless, and brings nothing of importance to the FEU forums

-And that all that did was that posts that deserved no likes and weren’t of importance got liked anyways; to fill a daily quota.

Now, I propose for FEU to remove the badge system(because, as I stated, it’s basically useless); and to at least, reduce the number of daily likes to a more reasonable number, like 10 daily likes. that would reduce the incentive for people to spam likes, and fill up people’s notifications(you can disable like notifications; but is that really a fix?).

If we decide to keep the badges system, I have another proposition : Make the badges designed so it makes people want to improve themselves as hackers and impress people with their works. Rewarding people for being great at the community’s main focus should be the way to do it, rather than rewarding people for some random threshold of a button being pressed x time.

Now, onto the Discord specific issues:

One issue is the way that channel locks are handled. 2 channels come immediately to mind, but there may be more that we are unaware of: #spell-academy and #l33t-h4x1ng. Those 2 channels are pretty special, as they are both locked in some way to specific roles. Now, I can somewhat understand the reason spell academy is writing locked to apprentices, as to prevent spam(however, you could argue that preventing anyone without the role to chim in and give potentially important information can be problematic(though most people who would be able to do that would already have the appropriate role, so that lightens the issue))…

However, I cannot understand why leet haxing (and also decomp, while we’re at it) cannot be viewed by anyone but apprentices and wizards. Why would you lock potentially interesting information to hackers without that role(because, let’s be real; even if there are some people who don’t hack, most people would join the FEU discord because they are interested in hacking in some way, and having all of our hacking info available to even new members would make much more sense, as we’re supposed to be a hacking focused community.) In general, we should not be supporting a structure that artificially segregates the community.

Now, let’s talk about the main problem, one we have been able to observe in the last few days: We have a clear lack of strictness in moderation.

Now, I understand, too strict a moderation can be bad and lead to more problems than anything; However, a complete lack of moderation is even worse.

First off, albeit that’s a lesser issue, we have no EU mods; Secondly, and much more importantly, most of the mods we do have are very… lax at moderation, and that can lead to very passive moderation, or even inactive moderation.

The current channel situation in FEU is very hectic; general, the main channel, almost always gets into a shitposting spree, and same with most other channels. I will reiterate that FEU is a hacking community at first, and we should strive to focus more on hacking than we are right now. right now, most of FEU’s activity(mostly on discord; still can be seen on forums) is shitposting rather than hacking. And while sure, outright forbidding shitposting would remove the fun out of FEU, we still need to moderate it more strictly.

I believe the mods should either start getting stricter; By punishing shitposting when done several times in a row(by giving the person revenant ; for example, and making revenants not being able to talk in general as punishment(since right now, removing image posting rights still doesn’t prevent the person to shitpost via text.)) and encouraging topicality more(by actively participating in discussions regarding that mods’ skill set, so that the mods can show the example and not just be unknown guses that are barely active)

Maybe we should get new mods, people more involved with the community, actual faces of respect for people. Maybe holding some form of moderator votes(just like we did back when arch got demoted) would be a good idea ?

24 Likes
#2

ok boomer

5 Likes
#3

As far as the forum stuff goes, I can decrease the number of daily likes fairly easily. It might also be worthwhile to take an inventory of the badges and eliminate ones that promote abuse of the forum software.

Discord stuff? I’m staying away from that topic.

EDIT: The daily number of likes has been decreased to 10 per user.

9 Likes
#4

All fair points, Kirb. Thanks for putting this together.

I didn’t know about the other hacking channel until today, so that could be nice to have known about. I think a little more clarity on what having a ‘role’ means on the discord could be nice. But generally I lean towards transparency whenever possible.

Agree badges and exessive liking can be a drag. Badges, if we keep them, should promote behaviors we want on the forum. I’d personally do away with them, although I know we all enjoy our e-dopamine hits time and again.

7 Likes
#5

I have been flip-flopping on this for a while. I agree that the flood of people doing tasks to receive badges is a problem. On the other hand, I do think that it’s in principle a good idea if set up the way you described – it’s just a pretty big time commitment (that I don’t have) to rehaul it in that way (because the forum software as a whole is not designed that way).

There are dedicated channels for hacking discussion. If you think those aren’t being moderated heavily enough, then we can talk, but I am not particularly enthused by the idea of restricting general discussion.

Aside from the fact that revenants are already disallowed from posting in the_underest (or at least they should be? if this is false then i need to go talk to Colorz), this is very heavily against our moderation philosophy. “Being good at a thing” is not a qualification for being a moderator. We do not judge our community members, at least from a staff perspective, on their ability to “contribute content”, or whatever.

Is there a particular member of the staff you’re thinking of? Feel free to let me know privately if you are uncomfortable saying so in public. Or, if that member is me, then you’re shit outta luck because I’m the one who runs the server you can let another staff member know (that said, I’m generally down to hear how I can improve).

3 Likes
#6

Kyuzeth?

Also laxivity of modding is by design and not by fault.

2 Likes
#7

(I apologize about forgetting Kyuzeth. I have already been notified about it, however I’m waiting for the situation to calm down before writing another full-length follow-up.)

1 Like
#8

I mentioned this on discord, but to keep it relatively contained I’ll elaborate a bit here:

My philosophy is that spam is harmless unless it is drowning out legitimate discussion, in which case the golden rule applies. If you think that someone is shitposting and getting in the way of an actually interesting discussion, you should first ask them to stop (it isn’t always immediately obvious when a conversation is done), and then you should let us know if they continue to willfully ignore your requests. To a certain degree this will always be up to moderator discretion, but I don’t think it’s a big deal to shitpost if the chat is dead anyway.

9 Likes
#9

I actually agree with Kirb on a few points and felt I should say some things. Mostly about the discord since I spend less time on the forums these days.

I agree with the lack of strictness in moderation. FEU isn’t a small group of friends any more, it’s gotten big enough to the point where there are multiple cliques. You’ve got whatever Peer’s/Nat’s group was back in the day, you’ve got the old guard and you’ve got the gacha groups. Loose moderation doesn’t hold up for a group of this size and I can’t help but feel people are being turned away from FEU because of a perception we’re “memers” and not hackers. Which is probably true for general these days. Unfortunately, the mods at the top don’t agree with this idea so the discord rots by design.

For the lack of moderation outside of the US, this is still pretty bad even if you’ve missed some people. Kyu is the EU mod mentioned earlier but he doesn’t go into general or the underest. Circles is the other one you’ve missed, he was UK for a bit before coming back to Australia. We still have an overwhelming US presence in moderation even as the discord starts to pick up more Europeans and South East Asians/Australians.

In all honesty, I can’t see these problems getting fixed unless the people at the top change their minds.

5 Likes
#10

Maybe this is just my general frustration with the drama over the past few days, but I see very few specific suggestions here.

“Be stricter on moderation” is not a specific request. Kirb suggested punishing frequent shitposting, but that’s difficult to enforce, and in all honesty is more likely to backfire. What constitutes a shitpost? What exactly is “being on-topic”, when is it okay to switch topics? At best, these come down to moderator discretion, but that’s already the policy.

“More EU mods” is something I’m open to consider.

3 Likes
#11

By “be stricter on moderation” there’s been multiple times where (numbered, formal) rules have been broken and the established punishment system (three strikes - informal warning, revenant, kick, and ban) has not been applied. I’m recalling a specific case where someone used slurs which were explicitly banned by Rule 2 multiple times and never got a formal warning (despite being told to stop by the community), but they finally changed their behavior when they were revenanted and formally warned about it.

I think what could help achieve this goal is appointing more mods (and not just an EU mod but an Asia/Australia mod as well), adding some way (possibly a bot) to send modmail privately (as users tend to feel like they’re tattling when pinging paladins, and a ping is really only useful for things that are happening in the moment and need to be urgently dealt with. The current implementation requires DMing mods, which requires the person messaging the mod to have DMs turned on or have the mod in their friendlist), and maybe holding a meeting to make sure all the mods are on the same page as to what constitutes “remove silently and don’t warn” vs “enforcing the punishment system that’s been established”.

2 Likes
#12

If you can find the specific examples of someone a) breaking numbered rules and b) the staff being notified without the perpetrator being punished, I’d greatly appreciate it. I know staff presence in the underest in particular is a bit lacking, but as far as I know any time we’ve been pinged the issue has been dealt with relatively swiftly.

At best, at the moment I’m seeing a case to bring on a staff member that is consistently awake for EU/Asia timezones.

3 Likes
#13

Why is there a need for regional specific mods? Just curious since I am new in FEUniverse.

#14

Timezone coverage for moderating the discord server

#15

Makes sence. Sorry for disturbing the conversation then.