I have been developing an experimental ruleset that would allow 2-4 players to play through a FE campaign in competitive co-op. This is NOT a rom hack, rather a set rules/guidelines (akin to a board game) that can be applied to any FE game. My goal for the project is to create a simple guide that anyone can use with their friends to enjoy fire emblem together. The most interesting aspect in my opinion is not how the players coordinate to complete the game, but how they compete for limited resources such as promotion items. I expand upon this in the guide. I will add a copy of what I have developed so far, which includes more info on the goals of the project. I would love to hear constructive feedback, especially if you have tried something like this before. I haven’t seen any formal rules for something like this so please let me know if you have!
Additionally, I would like to recruit some of the FE community to help me with the project. Up until this point I have been playing with my friends as the main source of data. However, my friends are very new to FE and are not likely the demographic which would be interested in this long term. I would like to gather a group (or several groups) of 2-4 people and play through a campaign together in order to test the rule set, have fun, and meet new people in the community!
Ideally, I am looking for experienced players who can give constructive feedback.
I would like to play a game (or hack) that we don’t have prior experience with, because the ruleset is designed to be flexible in these situations. It would be great if a group of companions can go on a bunch of new adventures together instead of having to replay through old ones.
We would start around late September, probably meet weekly or every other week.
Looking to have fun and play FE!
Need to have parsec installed on computer, and discord.
Work together to complete the quest! But remember, all the loot and experience you gain is yours to keep! Who will have the best team in the end? Who’s team will survive?
Goals of this Ruleset:
Create a fun meta-game that is flexible enough to be applied to most Fire Emblem games without the need for hacking. Fire Emblem, being a single player game, needs additional rules to be converted successfully to multiplayer.
Create a meta-game that can be applied to Fire Emblem games, even if they are unfamiliar to the players.
The rules are meant to settle disputes, keep the game orderly, and encourage a competitive co-op environment.
Creating a balanced experience for each player:
This is very difficult.
Players 1 + 2 have the huge bonus of going first every turn.
This is offset by player 1 having the lord unit and going last in battle preps.
This is offset by player 2 not having any other advantages and having similar detriments to player 1
Players 3+4 are at a large disadvantage by going last every turn.
This is offset by player 3 possibly having the “Jagen.”
This is offset by player 4 sometimes having higher deployment slots and going first in battle preps.
Getting Started
It must be determined at the outset, if references, guides, etc. are allowed.
Select at random the order for players (player 1,2,3 etc.)
This is the “player order” referred to in the rest of this guide.
Unit Recruitment
Units join a player’s team according to player order in a snaking fashion (player 1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1, repeat)
Alternatively, if all players are experienced you may agree on a unit draft before starting the campaign.
If multiple units join on the same map the unit position on turn 1 will determine in what order they are gained. Units are gained in order from the top left corner to the bottom right corner as if you were reading line by line.
Alternatively, the players may agree unanimously on a different recruitment order for the chapter.
The player who plays as the lord unit may be determined at random. Or it may fall to player 1 or to the most experienced player as a handicap (depending on the game). If it cannot be agreed upon, then player 1 has the lord unit.
The player with the lord unit must fulfill the duties of the lord unit such as but not limited to: recruiting, seizing, and avoiding game overs.
The “Jagen” goes to player 3.
Alternatively, a unanimous decision can be made to give the “Jagen” to another player, or to not use the “Jagen” as all or until a certain chapter.
Players must in good faith attempt to recruit new units for their companions by deploying the appropriate units and completing the appropriate objectives to recruit. If a player willfully fails to recruit a new unit they must give 2 of their units to the affected player. However, you are not required to face excessive risk of death for recruitment.
It is helpful to keep a spreadsheet to keep track of each player’s units.
Battle Preps
Battle preps are done in reverse order (player 4 first), the unit limit will be divided by the number of players, then rounded down, and each player will get that number of units for the map. Extra units will be added in reverse player order (4,3,2).
Players may only access items from the convoy or their units. Trade requests for items or units between players may also be made.
Formations must be agreed upon, otherwise it is determined in reverse order (player 4 goes first).
Preps should not exceed 5 minutes/player.
Gameplay
Players take turns according to player order.
During your turn, you may take any action with your units or between your units without hindrance from other players.
During your turn, you may request trades, healing, rescues, etc. from other players.
During your turn, other players are not allowed to make any controller inputs or give any advice unless asked for.
Each player controls their own units via parsec.
You must ask before rescuing or trading with another player’s units.
You can delay your turn once per round.
Units may not be traded during a chapter.
You are under no obligation to help or hinder the other players.
The Competitive Nature of FE:
You are a group of individuals coming together for a common goal. However there are limited resources in FE, thus there is competition for those resources between allies.
Units:
Your units belong to you, leverage them to your best advantage. You are able to make trades with other players for units. Which units make your team the best?
Thieves, flyers, and healers give you an edge over the other players, since you get first dibs on treasure, promotion items, boss kills, and healing.
The more units you have the more “private” inventory space you are able to leverage.
Items:
Items carried by your units are yours, any items added to the convoy are public property. You are able to make trades with other players for items. Which items are best for your units?
Funds:
Funds are unfortunately shared between players. I suggest dividing them by the number of players whenever you visit a map with a shop or armory.
Your companions will not be pleased if you spend all of the money, and you will likely be shunned, but whatever is in the convoy is up for grabs anyways.
Experience:
As your units gain experience they become stronger. Bosses and high level enemies give the most experience. Who will get those kills?
Yo, this seems really cool. I did this with a few friends a while ago, was tons of fun, so I’m glad someone else is taking the idea and running with it.
I remember that the first time I did this, I used a point system with it (because I felt it wasn’t competitive enough for me) so that we were actually competing for who won at the end.
Something like:
2 points for every MVP (decided by game if doing Tellius/3ds, otherwise decided by vote)
1 point for every surviving unit
.2 points for every level gained by surviving units
Points for the top 5 units rated by kills in the epilogue
And then a bunch of Mario Party bonus star esque things, such as
2 points for the highest gold total at the end
2 points for best unit death
2 points for most legendary weapons collected
etc.
Anyway, I’m 100% down to help you test this, sounds like a real fun time
Hey HeroVP,
Thanks for the support! That means a lot. Yea it seems to me that this idea is floating around the community but it hasn’t really crystalized yet.
I was also considering a points system but personally I find keeping track of points to be tedious. But what you are suggesting would be pretty minimal at the end of every chapter it sounds like, so that would work. I definitely like the mario party bonus stars lol. I like the idea of voting on that at the end of the campaign:
“Most likely to kill a unit”
-“largest army”
-“Most likely to betray you”
-“Most likely to suck at math” lol
-“Never punished award”
Ultimately, I was hoping the scarcity of resources divided by 3-4 people would act as a points system in itself. I am hoping that it is really obvious who got the most kills because their unit becomes ridiculous. I am hoping it is obvious who has the best weapons because they reserved them for themselves to use. There is only so much exp and only so many item uses.
Thanks for joining the cause! I’m really excited to hang out with more fire emblem fans!
Yeah, I did a really complicated points system my first run and it was not fun to keep track of, so the simpler and easier to read the better. Voting at the end seems like fun, and that could very easily just be the system (4-7 categories to aim for, whoever gets the most points wins, either on an all-or-nothing system, aka one point to the winner, or a weighted scale, aka 6/3/1/0 points for 1st/2nd/3rd/4th).
But as you said, resource scarcity could very well just work as the competitive element, both are good ideas, just depends on preference.
Yea both are good and that’s why we get to test them out! I don’t know what the best option is. I do like the idea of voting at the end being the points system (because I am lazy lol).
What difficulty do you like playing at? I typically like hard but not lunatic. HHM on FE7 is perfect difficulty for me playing solo. I suspect that harder difficulties while competing with other players may not be as fun, or even possible. OR the chaos will make it way more fun. I guess something that is really important to mention is that I am picturing this playthrough as an ironman run, since resetting with 4 players will be super annoying. buuuut I usually keep playing if I game over.
What games are you most familiar with? I have really mostly played the GBA games, but I have played most of the ones released after those. I think it would be cool if we could find a game (or hack) none of us have played yet so it is fresh for all of us, and a level playing field.
Difficulty depends on the game, but I’m fine with anything as long as it’s not Sacred Stones normal mode or something. Agreed on the super hard difficulties, unless we have a squad of elites, CQ lunatic or FE12 Reverse Lunatic and their kin are probably off the table. Ironman is better here, agreed on that, but if we lose a crap-ton of stuff a unanimously agreed upon reset isn’t off the table
I am fine with pretty much anything, but unfortunately for this case, I’ve beaten every Fire Emblem game since 4, although some of those I know way more about than others (I haven’t done 5-7, PoR, New Mystery, or Fates CQ/BR in a while).
In terms of hacks, I also unfortunately have done a few of the big ones. I’ve completed Vision Quest, Four Kings, and Justice and Pride (at least, off the top of my head) and I’ve done a few chapters of Iron Emblem, Project Ember, The Last Promise, and Deity Device, although I would be totally blind for those after like chapter 5
I know that’s a bit unfortunate for you, but if need be I’ll take the lord and the 4th spot and the experience can be a handicap
lolol yea sacred stones normal would be painful. You are right about a unanimous reset, I think that is appropriate as well. Basically if there is a unanimous decision on anything I think it is fair game.
Well I did ask for experienced players! Yea I think we can work something out, or we can just play a game we are all familiar with, I just want to keep it evenish. Going 4th with the lord is a pretty big handicap but that would definitely work too. I haven’t played PoR or new mystery in a while and I was just looking at deity device and eligor’s spear for the first time. Those might be good options.
I’m probably going to make a discord server for when we start so we can hammer out the details by voice. I will post more info later.
I’m getting excited! Sounds like we have the makings of a good team!
Yeah, I’m fine with any of those options (although I have heard that Eligor’s Spear is pretty rough, especially on higher difficulties, but if everyone’s down, I’m down). Best of luck finding the other two people
One more thing, What do you think about player 3 getting the Jagen? Or what should we do with the Jagen in general? Its a pretty big buff usually, might depend on the game.
That seems fair, better than most alternatives. Obviously, it sort of depends on the game, in Radiant Dawn, for example, getting Sothe is not that big of a boon, considering the DB gets like 4 other mega-busted units in part 1, and he’s sorta trash lategame, but in Sacred Stones, player 3 has a giant advantage for being the only person to be able to use Seth.
For general cases that aren’t those, the Jagen is typically going to be about as good as being able to go first on a map or first in preps + an extra unit sometimes, so it’s probably good.
Actually, while I think it’s a decent general rule, there should probably be an addendum of weird cases of Jagens and Lords (since this is supposed to be like a comprehensive ruleset)
I have some ideas, obviously you don’t have to take them (and since all of these are made under the assumption that player 1>player 2>player 4>player 3, they will change if that order is proven to be false.)
Anyway
FE1
Player 3 gets Marth, Player 4 gets Jagen
FE4
Player 3 gets Sigurd, Player 4 gets Quan
FE5
Player 3 gets first pick of Eyvel or Dagdar, Player 4 gets the remainder. Player 2 gets Leif
FE7
Player 1 gets the main lord by default, the other two lords are treated as normal units
FE8
Player 1 gets Eirika, Player 3 gets Seth (but cannot deploy him until the route split)
FE10
Player 1 gets Micaiah, Player 2 gets Elincia, Player 3 gets Ike, Player 4 gets Sothe+Geoffrey
Tbh this one might not be balanced, but I do really like Player 1 getting the part 1 lord, 2 getting the part 2 lord, and 3 getting the part 3 lord
FE12
Either ban Kris and proceed normally, or give Kris to player 3, Arran to player 4, and Marth to player 1
FE13
Same as FE12, either ban Robin and proceed normally, or give Robin to player 3, Frederick to player 4, and Chrom to player 1 (although maybe also ban Robin from reclassing or make them take off veteran ASAP)
CQ/BR
Player 3 gets Corrin, Player 4 gets first servant
Rev
Player 3 gets Corrin, player 4 gets first servant, player 1 gets Gunther
Echoes
There’s no Jagen, and Alm is neither a hinderance or a boon. Just draft the units and give 3 first pick.
Glad to hear you have been doing some theorycrafting! I really like this. It is very helpful because I don’t know enough about every game to make an addendum like this. I am going to add it basically as is. I am sure that these suggestions will change with playtesting but we have to start somewhere!
For FE9 I think player 1 gets Ike, player 3 Titania, but I am not sure if Titania should be restricted in some way.
WE SHOULD PROBABLY TALK ABOUT DANCERS …maybe ban them???
lol…warriors
btw I am probably going to make a reddit post if we don’t find 2 more people here.
Also what is the best way to send you the link to the discord server? or is it safe to just post here?
FE9 sounds about right. It’s been a bit since I’ve played it, but I don’t really think she needs to be restricted (or can be, really, she’s fairly necessary for some early chapters).
Dancers are weird and are almost as complicated as the lords. In general, I think they can be allowed. The utility of a dancer is that you typically have 10+ units that fill certain niches and the dancer allows one of those to pull double-duty. In this run, if someone wanted to do that, it would be fine (and not banworthy). If someone wanted to play really selfishly, however, the dancer would have the pretty limited utility of making the same 1 or 2 units act again each turn, which feels less good. Again, the playtest would probably make it clear whether they are bannable or not, but gut reaction says no.
Yeah, you can just post it here or dm me, either way.
Yeaaaaa I’m just worried about super strong flyer + dancer team being busted or something like that. But deployment slots are going to be super valuable so it might be hard to fit in a dancer unless you are player 4. Also like you said, dancer utility may decline with less units available on your team.
Its probably a bad idea to ban things too quickly.
I really can’t think of a game where the dancer would be a huge issue in that scenario. Miledy + Elphin/Larum is a strong setup, but nothing broken, considering you are competing for all these kills with other people. Sigurd/Sylvia is strong, but mostly due to the Sigurd part, Sylvia won’t even be able to keep up with him after turn 2 or so. Azura is nice for some CQ boss kill setups, but chances are that you’re only pulling those off if at least 2 other people agree to help you out with it, and the endgame skip might be literally impossible unless the entire team has been in on it from the start
Yea it will be hard to keep the dancer protected and close enough to use without 2 other mounted units to ferry them around.
Hopefully they work like thieves and healers, which are definitely an asset to their team but they don’t make or break the team. Shouldn’t be a problem.
I did yesterday on r/fireemblem, so far one person might be interested, waiting to hear back. Did you say you had some friends who might like to try this? We may have to make it work with 2-3 people first time around. Worst case scenario we will just have to do the first run by ourselves and show people why this is a cool idea.
I don’t have any friends that play Fire Emblem, unfortunately. A 2-3 person campaign seems reasonable to start, we don’t need to go all out for a test/proof of concept run