Keeping everyone welcome

Edit: I hit Reply too early. Fugg.

Well, now that the thread has been unlocked, let’s see… where to start.

Let’s start with this. This is not my argument. It never was. Did I say you shouldn’t have banned those three? Did I say you should unban them? No. I did not. I said you should not ban someone and then leave snide messages on their posts. A better idea would be to say “This user has been banned and will not be able to reply to any messages.

Where did I ever ‘defend bad behavior’? I attacked bad moderation practices. It should not be a thing that people get banned and have messages attacking them permanently affixed to their old posts. This is a common sense measure of decency.

And yet you felt the need to include it.

I’m not saying you have to post the evidence. I’m saying:

  • If you make a claim about something, THEN you have to provide evidence or a way for people to defend themselves.
  • If you cannot do one of those things, or don’t feel comfortable doing so, then don’t make the claim. Just say someone got banned and leave it at that.

See, the problem here is, not many people trust the FEU staff. My memory is a bit longer than a goldfish, so I can easily recall numerous instances, such as the Open Letter, where mods ganged up on people and extolled their virtues while acting like hypocrites. If I really feel the need, I can dig back and find a dozen examples of mods making jackasses of themselves.

If people trusted the FEU staff, then a ban wouldn’t be anything out of the ordinary. You wouldn’t have people, such as me, assuming there are backroom shenanigans going on. I happen to have seen a few leaked mod chats. You guys are not holy arbiters of the light; you’re just as flawed as everyone else.

When the OP of this thread says, and I quote, No flaming, baiting, or bullying. This applies regardless of whether a specific member of the community is targeted.

Then a man has to wonder what those words encompass. Is leaving inflammatory messages on a banned user’s posts not considered flamebaiting? Ah, but you say these people are all bigots, so they deserve the harassment.

By your own words, these three are receiving the ‘public shaming they deserve’. Or rather, the public shaming you say they deserve.

Here’s a hypothetical question: What is the role of a moderator or admin of a website, outside of developing the website? It’s to keep the community safe, make sure members are getting along, etc.

In that respect, banning Tambo is perfectly valid. I don’t care if you ban him. You can ban whoever you want. You can even ban me, if you feel that’s a good idea.

Another role of a moderator is to ensure the community ‘runs smoothly.’ ie, it is to ensure the forum doesn’t go downhill. You don’t want to take actions that will actively harm the forum.

One of the most important traits a moderator can possess is the ‘veneer of impartiality.’ Nobody expects everyone to be wholly impartial, but at the least, when disputes arise, people hope that if the mods step in, they will do so by bringing justice to the wronged, without relying on their current friendships and ties.

Forums live and die based on this notion. In FEU’s case, there are only three mods left that most users can agree are ‘mostly impartial.’ We expect that when disputes arise, if those three step in, they will hand out punishments fairly and not take the sides of their friends and comrades.

This means you cannot, and should not, go out of your way to attack users personally. I am a normal user. I have one weapon to defend myself: My words. A moderator or admin not only has those, but also the shield and sword of muting, locking threads, banning, etc. When you wield those improperly, you tell the community “We don’t care about you plebians, only each other.”

Cam’s post nicely illustrates this.

Cam. Buddy. You always do this. Any time something comes up, you pull out the “I own this site” card. Great. Nobody is impressed. We are appreciative, of course. We are glad that you foot the bill.

But in the end, FEU is a forum where users congregate into a community. The forum is replaceable; the community is not. By constantly talking about how you own the website and your word is law, you alienate yourself from the common users. When people bring up concerns, only for you to shove them away by saying ‘the power is mine,’ you make it clear that the common users don’t matter, and only your power does.

Oddly, I don’t think that’s even the message you want or are deliberately trying to send, but it’s what we hear, loud and clear.

Let’s get back to Tambo/etc.

Warning: racism

A casual search of FEUcord brings up messages like these. I remember seeing a few of these back in the day, along with other such slurs getting dropped like firecakes.

I’m not here to call out Kirb (Or anyone else, though he specifically does come up a lot). Maybe he’s changed, maybe he hasn’t. My point though is, if you wield the banhammer inconsistently, and if you make a debacle of banning someone only to then shut down any discussion, what message are you trying to send? What is your end goal?

You claim to want to make a community of tolerance. Fair! A community without bullying. Fair! But if that’s the case, then why are mods and admins exempt from the rule? Are you guys above them?

I’d write more but I accidentally posted this early. Oh well, maybe I’ll add more in a bit.


klok please, bringing others in was wholly unnecessary


I had a point, but because I posted early I forgot it.

I think it was something along the lines of ‘why aren’t you deleting these offensive posts then’ or something like that. That reply button got me good :laughing:


you say this, but as long as i am the one footing the bill, it’s up to you and everyone else to believe that i am not, in fact, a power-hungry tyrant and that i do, in fact, listen to the feedback that i’m getting. as i’ve said in the past, if you’d like to convince the community to move elsewhere that isn’t controlled by me (because, for example, people don’t feel that I listen to them and that only my power matters), that’s up to you, and i can’t and won’t stop you. as much as the “feu is dying nobody ever goes there because the mods are evil!!!” claims seem to keep popping up, the site statistics tell me otherwise.

You’ll have to take my word that I really don’t enjoy having to wave my dick around in this way, despite how often I’ve been forced to do it recently. The reason I keep bringing it up like this is because it is really the only response to “wah wah I don’t trust the mods” every time we make a decision that [whoever] doesn’t agree with, especially in cases like this one where things need to be kept behind doors. As I said in the post, the part of which you seem to have conveniently not responded to, if you don’t believe that I am listening, then I don’t know what to tell you. The entire reason this announcement was made in the first place was in response to a particular user telling the staff about something that made them uncomfortable. If your issue is that I’m not demonstrably listening to you in particular, then that’s something you can take up with me privately.


Actually, I seem to recall Kirb having a lot of trouble with moderation too back in the day. Ya know, when he was like…13? And guess what? He grew up!

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By the way, speaking of slander…

Warning: targeted attack

Did you really edit his comment to make Tambo look worse? I mean, it was a tasteless joke, and maybe not lighthearted, but still.

You’re the best, Arch.


Kirb is a fantastic example of how people can apologize and change for the better if given a second chance, and why we believe in the opportunity for forgiveness. Less than five months, with no apology or attempt at change, is an entirely different matter.

A statement of facts about how users have attacked other users directly doesn’t qualify as “harassment” in my view. If that were the case, Wikipedia articles about convicted criminals wouldn’t include their charges. I agree we could have worded the notices less harshly, but I don’t agree that these users should be free to post slurs and target other community members for insults without facing any consequences. Allowing it to pass without a “that’s not OK” makes victims afraid to speak up when they’re already in a vulnerable position.

We are only human, and we’re not exempt from mistakes. I’ll admit, I was allowing myself to get angry on behalf of people who were legitimately hurt more than I should.

Editing a targeted insult into a mario emoji and then using a spoiler tag to make it look like the N-word in a reply isn’t OK. This followed a string of actual N-words that got edited into mario emojis or similar-looking words. It’s designed to be inflammatory and push the rules and make people angry. This is just bikeshedding to distract from the real issue of his inflammatory behavior and intentional baiting.

EDIT: Don’t out victims of harassment and don’t repost slurs without spoilering them.


Okay, good, this is progress.

And there it goes.

You’re not wrong. My point is more that you edited the image to make it appear worse. Like, c’mon.

Anyway, I think I’ve said enough. I could repeat the same arguments a million times, but I won’t. You guys keep on trucking. I’m disappointed you deleted the image that proves you edited your ‘proof’ of Tambo, but at this point, I’m not even shocked. [STAFF EDIT: it was restored and spoilertagged on second thought. It’s still baiting and bullying and intentionally skirting the rules to make someone hurt.]


In my opinion because everyone asked while I do feel the staff edits should come across less harshly, if these people do feel a genuine regret for their behavior and desire to change, they should be more worried about making amends with the people who they hurt instead of onlookers who read the edits and decided they were assholes.

FEU is a fairly small community, their reputation isn’t ruined forever and if they really are trying to change it will be at the very least noticed.

If you care about slurs, why are there so many still searchable in the discord server? Like jesus, it’s a word. People have said it, and those words still exist. ON YOUR HOLY DISCORD SERVER. Some of them aren’t even banned.

Get off the high horse. Please.


Well, the only people who would search for trouble on the discord are people looking for it. Public posts expose it to everyone who looks at it.


Are you fucking kidding me?


May I make few comments?
First of all, I would like to say that I am not sure about the problem that occurred.
If there are places where I have misinterpreted, please point them out to me.

I think that any expression should be allowed as long as it does not violate the laws of your country.
However, FEU is privately owned website, so no matter how much you disagree with the decision, we will have to abide by it.
I believe that private property is an important right, so if the right holder asks you to leave, you have no choice but to comply.

Free expression and site ownership are both important rights, so I want to protect both.

// If possible, I think you start up new website or new discord channel for the project.
// If you are also locked out of the FEU discord chunnel and can’t send reports7z or questions, there is the NGMansion discord channel.

I would like to make only two requests to the admins.

One, if at all possible, before BAN the project, please give warning that it will be BANed if it continues in FEU any longer.
I don’t know exactly how the BAN came about this time, but if you are going to use force to suddenly BAN the project without warning, I think that is overkill.

Two, I would like to be allowed to just say, “Okay, we’ll continue this project on another site called foo”.
That way, at least it won’t be continued on FEU, and anyone who wants to continue the conversation can do so on another site.
Unless the link to the website is illegal, but if it is legitimate website, I would like you to allow it whenever possible.

And I would like to request that FEU users follow the decisions of the administrators, even if you don’t agree with them.
If both sides abide by these, I think there will be less unnecessary conflicts.

I’m not sure if this sentence translates well, but I hope it conveys what I’m trying to say.
If there is anything rude in the text, I would like to apologize.


Klok chuuni on main???

anyways, if you decide to come in on a thread about reaffirming a commitment to being actually inclusive with accusations about unfair/improper handling of the banning of a bigot from the community then you’re a part of the problem.


Advance notice: I am going to leave this thread open for one more round of back-and-forth and then I’m going to close it if it gets that far, because none of this this really has anything to do with the original purpose of the thread anymore.


Everything is clear and your points are well-made. Translation is good :+1:


to be clear, the project itself is not banned. it is the author of the project that is banned.

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I think I’ll pass. I’ve used up my whole Friday on this.

I’m sure you’ll all be glad to see me go. :weary:




I’ve been watching over this thread, not really intending to involve myself in some discourse pretty much entirely unrelated to me or anything… but this post bothered me just enough.
But wow, just, wow. This post absolutely ruined basically any point you may have had prior. Gamma stated that users should not be allowed to target or call other members slurs. That’s a pretty reasonable request, most of us can agree. That is harassment. Arguing against that is defending harassment. You are defending harassment in allowing people to state such offensive remarks towards others. People should be reprimanded for harassing others, plain and simple.