Absolute crit is perfectly fine if you’re given enough tools to work around it.
It’s a problem in Sun God’s Wrath because you can lose crusader scrolls to unit deaths. I think SotF has send items to convoy after death, so you’d have to get severely screwed not to have crit mitigation.
Also 100% crit is a tool to make it so you can mitigate the damage in the first place. It’s strictly easier to deal with 30 damage at 100% crit than it is to deal with 90 damage.
Again, in SGW, you can lose all or nearly all of your tools to deal with situations.
Also like, the enemies that have 100% crit in SGW also take multiple rounds to kill and have 1-3 range so you can’t avoid a counterattack no matter what you do.
So yeah, absolute crit isn’t actually a bad thing. It is a little iffy when spammed like it is here; gimmicks need to be contained so you’re not forced to engage with them too much, but like, when people bitch about SGW’s endgame, it’s for reasons that aren’t applicable to SotF.
It does.
Oh, and it also gives you generic units to replace units that died. Which actually makes E-1 easier, probably (you can freely lose the generics to Disarming Order)
If that comment was referring specifically to SGW, then I am out of my depth. In regard to absolute crit being bad – it’s just a different way to make enemies deal a lot of damage to you. You have several free tools to work around it here, and you don’t even have to get attacked in the first place. All three units that are forced in Endgame have a variety of 3+ range options, so you never have to take counter damage from the E-2 enemies if you just use them. Not to mention whoever you had deployed in the 14 other slots.
SGW is just the most infamous example of absolute crit being annoying. It essentially forces you to use specific units, which is the problem with E-1 here apparently. If someone is bothered about guaranteed crits on a unit, chances are they’ve either played SGW or been involved in SGW discourse or something.
“Crit is bad” usually refers to crit percentages in the ranges of 5-20 and 50-70, on enemies.
This I didn’t properly explain and for that I apologise. Granted I figured the “in this route” comment would have implied I was refering to the story as well. This hack has the sole distinction of being the one hack that actually made me genuinely hate it for a short time and that hatred swirls around Rakel and Valsythe at the route split. Which culmates on chapter 22 I think.
My distaste for the ass end of this hack is a a compilation of everything on e-1 and e-2 some of the maps on the way there, a large portion of the cast being borderline useless due to their speed caps being abysmal, the sheer amount of enemies that get given a bunch of statboosting weapons just to make killing them a complete pain, and pretty a chunk of the story after the route split.
But until the Rakel route is done I can’t really comment more then I did on it over 8 months ago.
Either way, I beat this hack without losing anyone and I still feel like the split maps were designed with the intent to just kill some of your units unfairly.
Yeah, that’s about right. I just hate it when hacks do it in general though, plus SGW had it on 3 units in total only one of whom the player has to actually fight where as here it’s on a total of about 20-30 enemies on a single map.
Eldritch Knights, Generals, and Wyvern Lords have pretty terrible Speed caps, yes. But I wouldn’t say that makes them useless. There’s a shit ton of good, high-rank physical weapons that should let them contribute, from reversal weapons to heroic weapons, not to mention the A-rank effective weaponry. You also have Meisterlanzes for the Generals, which are 1-2 brave weapons that prevent counters. My Eldritch Knights were indeed on the struggle bus at this point, but they can still do stuff like tanking with Munio, bonking enemies from 10 Range with Doulam, or nuking someone with Iscariot.
Enemies are indeed supremely tanky at this point, I agree with that. But you do still have the means to kill them, and hey… you can boost your stats, too…
And in regard to the story, I consider this sequence of the game a highlight – particularly for Sibyl, but also for Beryl. The route is referred to as Valysith’s route, but I find that it does more for Beryl and Sibyl in terms of characterization than it does for Valysith. Not that Valysith gets no moments – the confrontation in the middle of the route split that occurs between him and some new recruits was pretty fantastic – but Sibyl steals the show, from her telling us about her goals in more detail to her having an awesome exchange with the final boss, as well as telling Valysith to stand down when him not doing that would’ve caused problems for Treura. We also get to see the results of Beryl’s development, as the route split’s story adds more focus to his character, which was previously not really there (the story didn’t delve into it as much). And of course, you can’t tell me the gut punch at the end of 23V didn’t hit you hard. I find the entire confrontation with the final boss excellent in terms of story as well; the characters were able to take down an immortal entity in a believable way.
The only map I can imagine giving you that impression is 19V, because it contains Thracia fog of war (as do all the other fog maps in this hack) and flying enemies that assault you from above mountains. 17V is a very simple map where the time pressure is rather lenient. 17xV has a turn limit and fog, but most of the enemies are stationary, and those that aren’t don’t appear in massive waves or anything – plus, the unit you’re supposed to bring to the village has 10 Mov and excellent terrain data. You can even skip that one if you want, you do have fliers + dancer + Warp. 18V is literally Battle Preparations, and the arena in it has been coded to not kill any of your units. 19V is a fog of war map with flying enemies and some pretty threatening foes in general, a flying boss who moves to attack you from the fog, and reinforcements that eventually approach from the back, so I can see that one annoying you. 20V, however, is a map where you approach at your own pace and the only really hard part in my opinion is the final formation, before which you have two save points. 21V is a massive fort with a lot of deployment slots, but you’re only really pressured by the thieves, you advance mostly at your own pace, and you have somewhere around 25 units to deal with the terrifying end boss. Or you can just not fight him, let him walk off the throne, and seize. 22V is a huge rout map with a turn limit, but it has almost no reinforcements and the siege tome users are stationary, so I don’t see how it’s unfair. 23V is also a map with a turn limit, but again – you see everything, you don’t get ambushed by anything, and you get a massive number of deployment slots again. The last two bosses are tough, but with so many units, you should have a way to beat them; the village on this map even gives you a way to tank them. E-1 is really the map where I feel like a lot of units don’t truly contribute, but you mentioned the maps leading up to it feeling unfair to you, and I don’t really understand why. E-1 is the stinker for me, not any map before it.
For extra context, Chapter 15 was my least favorite map, because the Phantom reinforcement spam coupled with the plentiful reinforcements from the back and siege tome users in the front were greatly annoying aspects. That said, thankfully, the game doesn’t do such a thing again after that map.
The part that bothers me here is that you’re framing this as having to fight 20-30 of these enemies AT THE SAME TIME, when that’s really not the case. You can fight them in small groups. They have less Mov than all of your units and have inflexible ranges. There is no terrain in your way. Just take them in small groups, gang up on them. Move your entire group in one direction from the start (I went south), then methodically clear everything out. Your bow users can even harass from 4+ range, as can your siege tome users, and the enemies can’t do anything about that. You can turn this map into a series of 15v3s / 15v4s.
I’m not seeking to devalue your opinion, I just feel like you weren’t using the tools that the game gives you. I didn’t even mention all the stat-stacking items you receive. You get at least one for every stat.
Again, you keep forgetting we played different versions, I beat Hotfix 19. Many of the tools you had didn’t exist when I beat this hack. so it was likely easier when you beat it.
I also figured out what the problem with my save was. enough crap got moved around that it corrupts my save if I reload the map but my savestate works fine.
Basically save is incompatible with the current version.
This was my more… verbose take on the story.
So again. Stop comparing your experience to mine. They were not the same.
Well that’s how most people judge early access games.
However, that isn’t my exact feelings overall. This hack is very well made and getting something like Disarming Order to actually work like that probably wasn’t easy.
And again, there was a follow-up comment after my tirade back in november.
To whichI replied
His comments basically hit my points on the head with a more concise note.
And from what he said the maps used to be even worse somehow.
So I mean if it could change so radically I kind of feel justified in my thoughts.
At the end of the day these are just my opinions, and I’m usually only this negative on hacks I really like but due to how fumbled the post route split story is, it turned into the one hack I genuinely hate.
And I mean the “I don’t even know why this pisses me off this much” kind of hate.
Fair enough, I just don’t have a different point of comparison because I didn’t play the same version as you. This potentially just means that the hack has been improved, which is a good thing!
I didn’t know we were just putting massive story spoilers in the thread itself. I took some care not to spoil anything major in my previous post, but it looks like that was for naught. I’m still going to spoil the rest of this post, because I feel like it’s disrespectful not to (not calling you disrespectful, just saying how I personally feel about such spoilers).
Rest of the post
I have nothing to say to the first paragraph except “I feel like the gut punch of it is worth more than a support bonus.” Like, come on. Who cares about losing a support bonus in this context? Heck, Beryl has a Valysith support as well, which can directly replace that “lost support” by the time you realize you lost it for good.
Agree with Meshelan needing a portrait, though I feel like that could be problematic content for some players. Also tentatively agree with his battle sprite not having a face not being enough, though I will say that it is unlikely he won’t enter combat in his joining chapter, as he joins with what is essentially a siege bow.
I agree! I think it would be more interesting if the two routes didn’t directly mirror each other in this way (the people/person you didn’t go with die/s). Though I might change my mind if it’s done well.
The thing is that Beryl did try to talk to Rakel and change her mind. Repeatedly. It simply didn’t work. She was still stuck in her rut. Beryl writes in his diary that he has no idea what to do about the situation and that he expects something terrible to happen, and he is eventually proven right. I think it’s less of a problem of not knowing who the main character is supposed to be and more a problem of Rakel’s route not existing yet, because you currently can’t go with her.
I thought that arc for him was pretty great, actually. I like that it eventually leads him to agreeing with Rakel, and that Sibyl has to overrule his decision. Not only is his flaw put on display, but he also gradually understands just why Rakel felt the way she felt, and just why she did what she did. I think it serves to humanize him a little. The unfortunate thing to me is that he doesn’t get to resolve his issues, and his ending mentions that he never quite recovered from not being able to avenge his soldiers, which is unfortunate, though it seems intended.
Fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion. I’m only really talking about it because I feel like a lot of what you’re taking issue with is completely defensible, and in some cases, not even a problem. But you did already point out that you played a different version, which could be causing some of this.
It’s also somewhat amusing that we have issues with completely different maps. To me, Ch15 and E-1 need the most tweaking. In your tirade, you mentioned neither.
I tried to quote the details tab thingy but it wouldn’t so I didn’t really have a choice unfortunately. Granted putting it into a new details tab didn’t occur to me.
Responses
This is likely due to a difference in our mentalities, but I actually do remember my feelings about that particular event really well because of the anger it gave.
I didn’t actually realise it was rakel until I engaged in combat with her and she ran up and one shot Beryl due to having 30 in all stats but luck using a Lunaferatu axe. I also had her A supported with Beryl so there was no replacing that. Coupled with the fact that the story has some issues with “tell don’t show, actually don’t even tell” It grinded my gears for the same reason as Meshlan, not having a proper portrait kinda of ruins the reveal.
(And in the version I was on they don’t even recognise it as rakel’s corpse only that that soulbound had the fire emblem on it, in case that got changed between versions.)
This might be another “changes in writing” thing, since before the route split she was actually starting to open up to beryl hence why he could even notice she was close to her breaking point. She was starting to listen to him but once Valysith joins, with his new completely different personality, and she finally breaks due to him suddenly treating her like she’s a lesser commander that doesn’t know what she’s doing and then even goes against he prior “caring commander” characterization to just go “if you try to bring her back you’ll both be executed for treason because fuck you”. It’s like the route was written by a completely different person at points.
Which why it alienated me to him since from the moment he joined he immediately had a different personality from what was show prior. It was just so jarring that it felt insulting to a degree.
final thing I’ll touch on, if Shackled Power can have a guy with a mangled face for a boss, and I mean meat and muscle visible for his portrait due to his jaw being partially crushed, then this wouldn’t be too much of an issue. I actually would recommend you give Shackled Power a try.
Yea it’s kind of a annoyance simply because I don’t actually have that old patch anymore so I can’t check for major differences on some of the maps.
I have to ask why are you even complaining then when your problems were addressed? This isnt for the sake of wanting to see the hack improve anymore as it already has, its just pointless complaining and banging your drum saying that you had a bad experience with an earlier version.
You’re coming into the ass end of a conversation that started off with someone completely different. Has spanned over a handful days now, and pretty much revolves around the, what I consider to be, shitshow of the last few maps.
That, upon actually managing to parse out my older patch, I can confirm haven’t really changed much from when I beat it. I’m not going to replay a hack I don’t really like narratively just to confirm any story changes.
As per me hammering on the older version thing. That was me trying to explain that, while the maps maybe the same, the inclusion of new items may have allowed Vulgard to have an easier time of it then I did and compairing his run to my run isn’t compairable due to those items existing.
However since the map was the same my complaints are still valid. Hence why I said:
But either way can we please drop it. I think you’re the 5-6 person to suddenly chime in without going through all the context to jump down my throat on this.
If you have time to complain, why don’t you just go around again with the latest version?
It is natural to say that the first version is terrible because it has not been tested enough.
We can’t improve a game unless we release it and get a lot of feedback, so that’s what we have to do.
Fan games don’t have the budget to be debugged and tested as thoroughly as games that are sold as products.
FEBuilderGBA’s Updateinfo (automatic update) and Autofeedback (automatic feedback) are designed to solve this problem.
With automatic updates, you can update your work frequently because you can update it easily.
Autofeedback allows us to understand how users are playing.
Anyway, we should release more and more works and improve them better and better.
And I think that players should think of themselves as test players, not customers who have paid for the game.
You are playing the game for free, so please help them to improve their works.
This wasn’t the first version. But version 18. It’s now version 32, hasn’t had any major changes beyond items being added and from what I can tell has never had listed change notes.
I know that those tools help if they’re used but beyond about 4 items being added around hotfix 20 after looking through three different versions I can’t even tell whats different beyond that.
And I know the language barrier is a thing here, but I don’t plan to go around again till the other route is done since I already don’t like the currently available route do due an abundance of issues I’ve had to state 5 times in the past 10 days that seem to have persisted since I played, bugs included as evidenced by the post above pointing out a bug I pointed out back in November of last year.
Perhaps to no one’s surprise, Souls of the Forest is one of the most, if not the most, polished hack I’ve played out of the many hacks I’ve played.
Difficulty
I heard of SOTF as the hard gameplay hack when I first joined the community. And on my first playthrough, it certainly left that impression, with notably ch3 hammering me into the ground.
However, playing through it now, the hack feels like it plays much easier than before. I don’t believe its because I got better at FE, but more likely a combination of stronger units, more crazy weapons and equips and possibly some nerfs to certain chapters. And this is before mentioning save points, which make the whole process very smooth.
A noticeable difficult spike for me personally was in Maze of Gold, where I found my army composition that was mostly physical infantry/cavalry lacked the ranged damage that the tight hallways and long range enemies demanded. I was forced to bring back the benched archer, which training her up again paid dividends without how useful bows are.
I don’t know if others preferred a version where it was more difficult, but I found the lunatic experience to feel both fair and punishing for my skill level. I am not brave enough for reverse and 0%.
Gameplay Stuff
The first third of the hack would suggest a familiar fire emblem experience, but as some units begin to cap barely halfway through, SOTF transitions into a second phase of sorts, one that is dominated by powerful unbreakable weapons, passive stat bonuses and correct matchups leading to guaranteed kills both ways.
In this sense, late game SOTF is arguably easier than early game. My defensive units (Barrier Blade Emma, Munio Rae, Shieldbearer Brent) are able to consistently tank almost anything without number crunching, while the rest of the army obliterate enemies on player phase with all the other crazy gear they are carrying.
E-2 is the most memorable endgames I’ve played. While I am not fully sold on disarming order as a gimmick, its admittedly not too tough to play around. The seemingly absurd 66 mt and 200 crit on these enemies is meaningless when their ranges are specifically 1, 2 or 3, rewarding mixed range composition to destroy them while avoiding counters entirely. Their slow 3 move allows them keep tension as the horde advances, but still be dismantled at a good pace. It is also over surprisingly quickly, which I see as a positive factor. This combines to create an endgame that is incredibly intimidating at first glance, but has a unique flow that I ended up appreciating.
Story stuff
The ashen map palette as well as the world map gives SOTF a pretty strong identity in its setting. I thought it was interesting that even Treura doesn’t know what countries are on its own borders, which in combination with the ruined landscape and roving bandits, giving an almost post-apocalyptic vibe.
While I enjoyed Val and Sibyl as lords in their own right, it was a shame that Rakel’s story was less elaborated on in their route despite her being the main focus pre-split, with Beryl being more of a supporting character. Perhaps going Rakel route then Val route would be more satisfying, though I obviously cannot say.
I’m not someone who is educated enough to discuss writing at length, but I do believe SOTF’s writing is in the upper echelons of hacks I have played.
It’s almost pointless posting unit stats, as they end up the same as everyone else’s, capped to the brim. However, I am obliged to spread Brent propaganda, the king whose use did not wane even as his effective stats didn’t change for most of the hack.
I set out to train knife Innisa but forgot halfway through. A goal for next time.
iirc, it’s a little reference to an old bug that was then kept in cause it was just really funny letting the small child have a knife and potentially a bunch of other epic swords if you’re insane enough to keep letting her use them
rakel gets knives cause shes cool & for flavor reasons. (plus in both cases having them is a fun little easteregg that doesn’t too wildly affect 'em overall)
