Reading through your notes, I can kind of see what you meant as far as being overwhelmed with how to handle the returning characters. Vision Quest had such a huge playable cast that just figuring out where each of them would be and if they would appear was probably a huge task in itself.
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Yeah it was. And there were many I knew off the bat that I knew werenât going to return on screen in any capacity.
My goal was to have no more than a dozen returning playable characters and make most of the returning units either villains or NPCs.
The bigger issue was more so how I wanted different narratives to intersect and to have it all make sense. VQ was very much about the main party and the villains took a back seat to that, so I wanted to present the story more evenly across multiple perspectives, which was challenging.
Iâll get the rest of the gameâs notes drafted and shared soon.
8 Likes
A question me and a few others were wondering about this hack. Was Storch ever going to be recruited? Would he even be included at all in the plot? Me and a few people theorized that he could be could be the endgame Gotoh, but Iâm curious in what your plan with him was going to be.
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Yeah itâs a good question. I was pretty committed from the start to not have Storch return in any meaningful capacity. Where I was likely to land was to have him show up in a scene (maybe two) towards the middle-end of the game - still drafting up my notes and will share more then.
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I finished the rest of the sketch.
Please note this is very rough and I didnât really plan much out, so youâre getting a stream of consciousness that may be unsatisfying or unclear.
A lot of this, frankly, isnât very good and thereâs a reason why I struggled to get much done. If I had more time and interest, I wouldâve asked for more help making sure it all made sense and coming up w/ new ideas.
I would only recommend reading this if you are hyper-interested in what rough notions of a plan I had. It mostly boils down to a few character moments I wanted to write that had a lot of connective plot tissue I couldnât figure out how to organize. It became even more complex when I had to make decisions off of things I hadnât decided yet, so a lot of this will feel messy/unclear.
Be safe.
Part 3 - Wulandari
Part 3 - Wulandari (~7 chapters)
Wulandari, alongside her two retainers, Adinda (daughter of Kir) and Siomay, head back to Mostyn. They try to cross the border in cover of darkness and are chased out by General Sterlingâs men.
I wanted to create an escape map here inspired by Aquatic Mine in Sonic Adventure 2. There would be two paths, with one group moving through a more open space with water blocking the way, and a smaller group hitting switches to adjust the water. I wanted to set it up so you could press the switch again to trap chasing enemies in the water. At the end, the first path would open a door for the 2nd path, and both sides could escape.
This part was mainly going to then be focused on Wulandari navigating the court of Mostyn. She meets Duke Cajon and his son, Marcello (but he prefers to be called âCelloâ). She explains to the Duke, who sheâs known since childhood, the situation and that she needs Mostynâs help. The Duke is eager to support his dear friend Waluyo, but recognizes his own forces will not be enough. He highlights that the various dukes of Mostyn (one of which was going to be named Feijoada (I see you, Matezoide), the rest I hadnât sorted out yet, but like 4-5 of them total) were in disarray w/ the King, and their egos would prevent action.
With Cajonâs guidance, sheâd navigate the courts and uncover a few various mysteries. I was very inspired by FE9âs Begnion arc, where Sanaki uses Ike to expose corruption, and mirroring that here to some extent, where Wulandari helps curry favor with the dukes to get their political agreement to support her father.
I didnât have it fully baked, but I anticipated some sort of corruption to be exposed, most likely one of the dukes having an illicit deal w/ merchants in Nevan that wouldâve made one of the dukes rich. Exposing this, Wulandari effectively blackmails the complicit dukes into supporting her aims, and Mostyn agrees to support behind Kuching.
In addition to the plot elements, I wanted there to be a character arc for Wulandari here. Wulandari to this point in the story is relatively quiet and only puts her foot down in the heat of the moment. Sheâs a bit more low key and not one to rock the boat. In dealing with the dukes, she becomes much more direct and confident in her ability to lead, and learns that people wonât always do the right thing or see things through the same moral lens as she does.
In addition to this, I wanted to add a few scenes where she bonds with Cajon over their relationship with Waluyo and Ketut. I also wanted to have Cello as a supporting man here. Cajon would mention that his son is a bit of a playboy and doesnât take his duties seriously, but that he isnât afraid to speak his mind. Through this arc, Cello would help Wulandari find her voice and confidence, as well as not to take everything so seriously, while Wulandari helps Cello become more serious and responsible, recognizing his duty. They probably wouldâve been a happy paired ending candidate.
At the end of this part, Wulandari wouldâve met back up w/ her dad. Not sure how I wanted this to go down. Itâs been a while since I thought about it.
Part 3 - Kalea
Part 3: Kalea (~7)
During the above events, Kalea heads back to Mahala with Duck, Otilie, and Uilani. After a fairly uneventful trip through the mountains, Kalea returns home where she is met by her younger brother, Ikaia, and her mother, Queen Akela. The Queen explains whatâs been happening, noting the sighting of the âScion of Dark Bladesâ, a mysterious masked swordsman who was written about during the war of Origin and a powerful general under Ove. She sees a similar figure commanding men and gathering forces to the south, and wants her daughter to investigate in secrecy.
At the start of this, the Scion of Dark Blades would appear and kill one of the Queenâs attendants, Alani, who is Uilaniâs elder sister, protecting the Queen from death. The Scion shares that the Queen and Kalea would be next. Heâd say something edgy to Uilani about âending up like her sister over stupid loyaltyâ and Uilani is left pondering why she dedicates herself so much to someone so reckless. I was going to write a bit about Uilani and Kalea drifting apart here, but was unsure how to execute it.
In addition, the Queen also reveals she is housing Lera and Marlen. After the events of VQ, Lera learns that she is Titusâ daughter (More on Titus below). She, Marlen, and Vernon spent years helping orphans around the countryside and helping them resettle to find a better life, giving tem skills, teaching magic, etc. Esfir finds Lera and tells her the truth, that she needs to run from Titus, and go to Mahala, but disappears âfor her own goodâ. Eventually, she is tracked down by Titus. Vernon is captured and Lera and Marlen sneak away on a boat and seek asylum in Mahala.
Lera would state that she fears what Titus would do with her, and objects to the idea of becoming an Empress.
I wanted this arc to focus a bit on Kaleaâs past, why she left in the first place, and ultimately with her coming away with a stronger sense of responsibility and her place in the world. A bit of a coming of age story where she realizes that her power and privilege should be used for more than enriching herself, and that she should take this responsibility a bit more seriously.
I wanted to have some dialogue and scenes with Kalea and Lera, using Lera as a foil for Kalea. While both women are in line for power, they each approach their situation differently. Kalea, recognizing that Lera has seen some shit, realizes that she could be doing a lot more to help people, moved by Lera and Marlenâs commitment to helping youths and living as they did before Lera learned she could be Empress. This part was not fully baked and I wasnât 100% sure if this was the right direction, but I did think Kalea having some âa-ha!â moment meeting w/ Lera and recognizing sheâd been selfish and not leveraging the weight of her situation to do good being part of Kaleaâs growth arc - after meddling for her own gain, she realizes that there are other, more beneficial things she can do than put down a rebellion.
Plot-wise, I wanted Kalea to have a stand off with her mother after learning what the rebels want and not wanting to make the same mistake she did before w/ Cashew. While the Queen wanted to have Kalea destroy the rebels for the sake of unity, Kalea pleads with her mother to negotiate for peace and compromise in order to make a stronger, more unified Mahala. Was going to have some stuff around some of the uprisings and purges that Tien alludes to in his support with Hokulani in VQ, too.
However, during this time, it is revealed that Ikaia is actually the Scion of Dark Blades and was pulling the strings behind the rebellion. Ikaia, now without the support of the rebelling generals, challenges Kalea to a duel. I wanted to do a cool 1:1 map where Kalea would get her promo item and fight her brother in the rain with some sort of guitar track.
Ikaia would make an edgy speech about how she was cut slack in her duties and that he was better suited for the throne than she was. Kalea calls him a dweeb, besting him. She refuses to kill him and then Ikaia would take his own life, calling her a weakling or something edgy.
There obv wouldâve been more setup and intrigue around this, so I recognize this reads way lamer than it wouldâve been if I had actually had him appear as a menacing figure throughout this part of the story.
I also wanted to have a gaiden where Chiasa goes to her father, Kitozawaâs, burial site and fights a bunch of ghosts with his ghost before earning a sword as a reward for the chapter. Kitozawa asks her for forgiveness and reminds her not to follow the same path of blind vengeance as he did, and instead forge a new path of her own. âI donât want you to just be my daughter, Chiasa⌠I want you to be your own womanâ or something like that. Chiasa comes to understand her father and that his approach was misguided, and softens her stance on the Queen, now knowing her father was wrong and that his spirit can now rest having seen his daughter one last time.
At the end of all this, Kalea would plan to strike Freyung w/ Wulandari from the other side.
Part 3 - Meanwhile / cutscene stuff
Part 3: Meanwhile (in cutscenes)
I wanted to have other stuff happening in the background while this was going on, mainly focused on Cashew and Titus.
After getting captured, Cashew wouldâve had a few scenes where he is jailed alongside Anakoni. The two would initially be hostile to one another, but bond over their father and realize that the two are not so different. Cashew would get periodically tortured, and lose his eye. Anakoni would die from illness and poor conditions, and Cashew would become really edgy from months in captivity and coping w/ pain, as well as from guilt knowing that Dreyfus was killed by Kalea prior to his capture.
While transporting him to the site for public execution, Honeydew and Maelle break him out, with the help of townspeople.
I wanted to do a gaiden at the end of this section that has Honeydew and Maelle as playables, alongside Hodges, the therapy refresher chicken with a âsootheâ command, rescuing Cashew from the transport jail boat, with their escape covered by townspeople who had supported Cashew. I was inspired by the gaidens from Road to Ruin, and wanted to have it so visiting houses spawned green units that would charge the reinforcements points to allow your units to escape more easily. The green units would be people who owed âOlâ Stoltzkiâ favors, for those of you who remember him from VQ. This group would eventually meet back up w/ Kalea and co. and join them in the next part. This chapter wouldâve been the final chapter before the two groups reconverge.
In cutscenes across both routes, Titus would also be introduced. I wanted to have a bit of an FE8 inspired situation where Titus has his âgoodâ generals (Rakkaus, Zoya, and Hollace) and a new set of âbadâ generals that were handpicked by Horvath (names undetermined).
I wanted to have a light-hearted intro scene where Rakkaus and Titus are talking about food. I was thinking it would be funny to have Rakkaus prepare a hamburger and have Titus wax poetic about it.
I wanted to also have scenes where Rakkaus and Horvath represent different parts of Titusâ conscience. Horvath trying to cajole him into doing his bidding, and Rakkaus calling him out for it, while telling Titus to do what is best for himself. I wouldâve probably planned a few Titus monologues where he laments the difficulty of his situation and how he feels trapped by the throne he sought, and that his legacy would be undone.
I do want to be clear - barring some of the sketchy stuff w/ Horvath, Titus is generally well-regarded by the populace of Nevan during his reign. Between the two games, he wouldâve helped integrate Osturc (Lajosâ people who were historically persecuted and stateless) into Nevanese society and smoothing over relations, built schools, improved the economy, etc.
This starts to change after Titus learns heâs become impotent and wonât be able to produce an heir. While the early part of his reign was generally successful, he starts to become more self-serving in order to preserve his legacy. This leads to him trying to find Lera and force her into becoming Empress so that their line would remain in power to keep Nevan from de-stabilizing.
I wouldâve likely had Lera make a speech highlighting what happened, but effectively Titus wouldâve asked her nicely and upon her refusal, not accept no for an answer, leading to her and Marlen fleeing.
Regardless, throughout this part of the game, weâd see more of Titus and get a better sense of his motivations. As you may recall from the end of VQ, Sigrid and Lori took over territories from the fallen Lords of State, and Iâd have a few scenes where the two meet to discuss how the situation is (not good for them) and debating their course of action.
I think I wouldâve had Sigrid want to join the conflict on Kalea and Wulandariâs side, but be swayed by Timmonen and Michael once they learned that Kalea and Wulandari were responsible for killing Dreyfus. Sigrid instead vows to let them pass through.
Lori probably wouldâve ended up fighting them until being swayed not to. I had a few different ideas for how I wouldâve executed this or what Loriâs involvement would be. The earliest drafts had her being swayed by Storch to stand down, reminding her that her brother and Lera are with them.
Another idea I had was to have Lori and Esfir secretly work together on a coup attempt, where Esfir (who cut ties with just about everyone - even Lera didnât know where she was for years leading up to the events of the game), wouldâve approached her in secrecy about Titusâ intent. The two wouldâve partnered to have Esfir attempt to assassinate Titus (I really wanted to make this scene where Titus is rambling about something stupid to himself and suddenly Esfir appears out of the shadows), with Lori using her resources to create a way for Esfir to sneak into Balti and get to Titus alone. Iâm thinking Esfir wouldâve ultimately been captured by Titus as a way to convince Lera to come to Balti - ie come be the Empress or your mother dies, sort of thing. IDK I didnât think it through. Titus likely wouldâve been paranoid and vain enough to think that his lack of an heir would cause others to make attempts on his life. While he was right that people would try to kill him, it was because of how he was acting - not because of his lack of an heir.
Ultimately, part 3 would end with Titus and Horvath recognizing that Kalea and Wulandari were the key obstacles to getting Lera to submit and become Empress, as well as their way to access the Fire Emblem.
Part 4 - Taking Back Freyung / Nevan & Titus stuff
Part 4 -
This part would be where the two armies would converge and have some payoff for side-stuff in part 3 not directly related to the goings-ons of Mostyn and Mahala. Kalea and Wulandari would learn that Titus planned to invade Mahala through Freyung, and decide to attack General Sterling and take it back.
Cashew would join them early in this part and agree to support them - I thought it would be satisfying to have the old enemies reunite now with a better understanding of the larger forces at play.
I planned on having Sterling and Sorcha panic and recognize that Trachsel basically put them in a losing position. Trachsel would be revealed to be working w/ Horvath to install Sterling to allow for the invasion. Sterling realizes that he was used and also now is dealing w/ all of the kingdomâs problems - with two sides that are upset that neither the king nor cashew are on the throne.
I wouldâve done a map where you beat up Sorcha and Sterling. Cashew is crowned king. Trachsel flees to Nevan and the group readies to chase him down, recognizing how Freyung was a pawn in this.
The inevitable piece here would be a showdown with Titus, but I wasnât sure how to handle it. I could never decide if I wanted him to die or if heâd redeem himself and learn to put aside his fragile ego and recognize that he was acting poorly. Iâd want to make it super clear regardless that his mental state is deteriorating rapidly and heâs become utterly irrational. I really didnât know how to handle Titus by this point since heâd be an absolute wreck, and it was easily one of the most difficult things for me to wrestle with when scoping this out. Regardless, I planned for the âconflictâ with Titus to end one way or another, and then move on to the finale.
Part 5 - Finale
Part 5 -
The ending arc of this I wanted to be centered squarely on Horvath and the Order. Throughout part 3 and 4 youâd see more of horvath and the order, and now with Titus out of the way, the group recognizes all of the landâs troubles stem from the frosty north.
the group would go into the north and fight different cult members. I had some gimmicky ideas for maps at this point (stuff like Galagar-inspired warping, magic seals that turn on and off at different turns, etc.) - I wanted these chapters to have a mysterious feel, sort of like the crystal palace in paper mario. just sort of eerie and unsettling. I wanted to focus on gimmicks to avoid the big endgame slogs, but i never got far in actually mapping these out meaningfully, other than really liking the Chill Penguin midi I put together.
I thought a bit about how the church came to falter to the order. I wasnât sure how I wanted to handle Anwen, but the thought was she was under the mind control magic that was alluded to in VQ as part of Gradinâs experiments.
I had some ideas here around how Horvath wouldâve tried to unlock Ove from his seal, with the hope that Ove would grant him some serious power that would allow him to rule everything and force the world to suffer as his ancestors did? I wasnât really sure about horvathâs ultimate motivations besides feeling like his people were oppressed and that he should be in charge. It sounds really lame as I type this out. I think one of the barriers to writing this is that I came to not care for Horvath as a villain because he was just so comedically evil without much nuance. I wasnât sure how to humanize him without going over well-trodden ground or literary tropes.
The thing I was excited about was the reveal that Ove, thought to be this awful, malevolent man of insane power, had been observing the world from his seal for centuries and actually realized he was wrong and was a dick during the war of origin, and that he hates how Horvath is making the same mistakes he did. I had a vision of Ove taking the form of a generic villager or someone ordinary. He basically would be like âIâve changed and this is wrong,â and Horvath would melt down realizing he would not get any sort of blessing or power.
At the end, Gunnar would show up as the gotoh to bring the party to Oveâs seal. He would tell the group heâs been monitoring Horvathâs movements and trying to stay hidden. I wasnât sure exactly how Iâd handle it, but I wanted to do a character moment where Duck is really awkward and feels guilty after gunnar describes what he and otilie experienced decades earlier (in Duck/Gunnarâs supports, Gunnar alludes to a mission and Duck says he will join him, but in Endgame X, Duck flakes).
At the end of the game, I wanted to do the anime thing where Horvath is not quite dead and tries to kill Gunnar or someone else, and Duck dives in front, taking a fatal blow - finally overcoming his selfishness, albeit through death.
As for the final ending, I wasnât really sure how to handle this either. I went back and forth a lot about how to handle the two lords. I felt like itâd be cool if both Kalea and Wulandari got together and said âfuck thisâ, deciding to enjoy their limited time on the planet not worrying about rule, but the more appropriate ending wouldâve been for each to have influenced each other positively - Wulandari would ease up, Kalea would take things more seriously, and both would grow and gain the perspective to set them up to rule their respective lands - thus the âlength of timeâ of the adventure morphed and changed them.
Obviously this is all super vague and not very satisfying. I recognize that this may be mad. One of the reasons I canceled the project (beyond more practical things) was that I struggled to come up with a story I wanted to tell and that I felt made sense. Writing a big sequel is hard and I definitely at times felt more obligated to pursue this because of how VQ ended rather than because it was the story I was most interested in sharing. While the gameplay side of it was straightforward and the focus, it was hard to keep that focus knowing all of the characters and plot threads I wanted to weave together. It didnât help that I found the gameâs difficulty too high to test well or consistently, which further slowed me down.
TLDR the back half of the game was really underbaked and I couldnât figure out where I wanted to go. Iâm confident if I spent more time writing I wouldâve gotten there, but from my sketches I couldnât really make up my mind. I also didnât know how to handle Kalea or Wulandari in a compelling way. After VQ, I felt like I had done almost everything I wanted to, and was going through the motions to come up with ideas - nothing was really satisfying me as much as I wanted it to, unfortunately.
I hope this was illuminating and provides some degree of closure for those interested. The truth is that I really didnât know where this was going to end, largely because I didnât make the time to do the work and map it out as well as I shouldâve. I debated for a while if posting this at all made sense, but I figured itâd be worth sharing to give a sense of how much was actually planned out beyond the broad strokes.
Ultimately I think my goals around gameplay experimentation wouldâve been better served by a plot that was written with them in mind - ie not trying to resolve this massive thing when I mostly just wanted to mess around with capture.
Iâm still glad I released it and Iâm proud of whatâs there - the art is gorgeous and the game feels different than anything else Iâve played. I hope itâs useful to designers and entertaining for those who like the gameplay.
31 Likes
Hello umm, is this cancelled?
Yes. It says so in the title of the page.
Yes. Not working on this anymore.
The demo is still available and youâre welcome to download/play it. Iâm not updating it anymore and donât intend to finish the hack.
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@Razul_The_Best_Tactician @Popman08
Yeah, just read the title and hack description, next time :>
Most of the time you can find your answer just by reading :o
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If you donât mind my asking, what made you decide to cancel the hack?
If you scroll up, Pandan had written a lot about why he cancelled the project, and what he originally planned for Lenghts of Time 
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Iâve finished VQ and just finished reading through the plot summaries here, and I think something important seems to be missing.
It's about a sword...
There seems to be no mention of the Dark Blade, which I assume is why Horvath wants the Fire Emblem so that he can use the Dark Blade without someone using the FE to nullify it. The last mention of the Dark Blade is Gunnar taking it with him after Final X, and then⌠nothing. Did you forgor about it? I see mention of Gunnar in the final parts of this story, but nothing about the Blade or whatever he may have done with it.
I think I had a note somewhere about it being used to unleash Ove, if it isnât written there, thatâs what my intent was.
I only see mention of Horvath trying to unlock the seal, nothing about the exact method to do so. So I guess he somehow gets it back at some point, uses it, and then the rest with Ove happens.
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More or less, yeah. I didnât have it fully baked.
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Itâs a damn shame the sequel was cancelled.
Vision Quest was a wonderful experience, and the seeds that you planted at the end of that game for a sequel were expertly done as well. To have seen this sequel actually come to fruition would have been incredible as well.
Wherever you are right now, I hope youâre doing well. Thank you for the wonderful experience and memory that was Vision Quest!
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Itâs a darn shame that youâve canceled the project, I literally just finished Vision Quest and was quite literally drooling for more content with how the Endgame chapters and Gunnar paralogue resolved. Breaks my heart to see the continuation wonât be finished, but the plots in which you detailed are satisfying enough, and I respect your decision overall to cancel the project.
Vision Quest was still lovely, though! Easily one of the best Fire Emblem fan-games I have ever played, bar none. It felt so damn close to being an official product that if your logo didnât show up every time I opened the game, Iâd have actually forgotten it was a rom hack. I also nearly spat out my drink when Storch dropped an F bomb near the end.
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