Okay, those rangers on C7 are too fast, 22 speed by chapter 7 is unrealistic for most units.
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Think I realised what happened. Recently I applied a patch that fixed promoted enemies (in rare instances, but consistently in those instances) not levelling correctly - more recently than my last playthrough of C7. I donāt remember those rangers being particularly oppressive, but looking at them now, theyāre cranked. So I think the chapter was just balanced around them not levelling properly and me not noticing that, since their stats were already competitive.
Iāll amend that in the next patch. If any other promoted enemies look weirdly huge, thatās probably the cause, so Iāll do a quick scan across Act 2 at some ponit.
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yeah, I think thatās likely the culprit. I was thinking it was weird the Vanguards on chapter 6 had 25 strength and 55hp so that explains that.
other C7 enemies that are, uh, jacked are that warrior, drake knight, and Brigserker. all of whom have over 20 strength and well over 50hp.
only other minor complaint I have is how dodgy all the enemies are, but thatās due to them having actual luck stats.
as it stands now those generics in C7 pretty much canāt survive due to how you quite literally have to sack them once those rangers spawn just to hopefully do any damage to and slow them down long enough for your army to try and kill them.
not to mention now trying to keep them alive isnāt really all that worth it since they just have basic weaponry on them.
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Patchday again. The strong Act 2 prepromotes werenāt isolated incidents. I should have checked this when originally applying the patch to fix the issue where Act 3 prepromotes werenāt levelling as intended. Basically, a lot of Act 2ās prepromotes have been around 3-4 higher in every stat than intended.
For instance
A Chapter 8 guy as he appeared in v. 1.00. Personal bases compensate for what I assumed was just the odd way that promoted generic levels worked.
The same guy after applying the bugfix. Now he has high personal bases and grows normally.
The same guy in the new patch. Growing normally, personal bases knocked down heavily. As you can see, basically the same guy as the chapters were originally balanced around.
In addition:
- Fixed Mission guide text for C9 pointing to that for C11.
- Updated mug for Goran courtesy of Gold (I think this was actually in the v. 1.04 release)
- Updated mugs for Domovoi and Dzeneta courtesy of RandomWizard
- Had Kadri lose some weight, fitting the new mug better
- Darkened several Guardsman and Mercenary palettes
- C6: On Marbaās suggestion, added something to steal (specifically an elixir on one of the Hetaeriae)
As ever, the new patch is fully compatible with old saves.
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Is there a spreadsheet outlining every characterās growth rates? I assumed there would be something like that in the thread or the downloaded folder since I couldnāt view them in-game but itās nowhere to be found lol
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I donāt plan to make growth rates visible in-game. Once the game is in a settled state, I plan to submit the stats to Cromar Bot. In the interim, just know that no unit is designed as a trap who wonāt reward training, and most of the time, a unitās growth rates will basically have the same strengths and weaknesses as their bases.
As for that drake knight, seems like an underflow error. Drake knights have comically low resistance - not benefiting from the base 3 other promoted physical classes get - and the nerfed promoted Rhiannon bases have a -1 personal Resistance stat. Itāll be corrected in the next patch, but that particular C7 Knight is probably the only one it affects.
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So THATās why Chapter 7 keeps handing me my ass !
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Sorry for the double reply, but Iāve discovered an issue upon updating the game !
It seems that the patch doesnāt work, and instead of leading me to the game, leads me to base FE8.
Any possible solution ? Thanks !
For reference, i play on Visual Boy Advance V2.1.4
Not sure what could have caused that, unfortunately. Iāve tested the current patch and it seemed to work alright, so all I can guess is that something went wrong with the patching process. Maybe itāll work if you give it another shot, or use a different copy of a fresh ROM. Worst-case, version 1.04 is almost identical to 1.05 except for Act 2 being significantly more difficult; otherwise, it probably wonāt be too long before the next patch, which should hopefully work for you.
I gotta know, is it possible to save the far right most village in prologue?
Isnāt intended. Can technically happen if the AI is manipulated just so, but I havenāt yet put in any event to account for that; even when I do, there wonāt be a reward attached.
Having completed the game, this is definitely one of the better rom hacks Iāve played. Itās just so tight in terms of writing and gameplay. The story really feels like a gritty and dreary war story, something that no Fire Emblem game has ever quite been able to replicate (Or even many Rom hacks, for that matter). Right until the very end, you always feel like youāre both on the clock and woefully disadvantaged. And the gameplay integration within this hack is some of the best Iāve ever seen. Particularly, the boss recruitment mechanic is so ingenious in that it solves the dilemma of balancing pre-promote recruits compared to your earlier units: Too weak and the recruit is pointless outside of an Ironman [Syrene v.s. Vanessa]. too strong and the earlier unit becomes pointless to use. [Erk v.s. Pent]. Now, you have to choose between having 3000+ gold or a powerful recruit, instead of just having the powerful recruit from the start. Itās a cool trade-off, and gives the weaker earlier units an important niche in case you really needed the gold.
Anyways, hereās the final team for those who are curious:
Final Team
You go girl, cap those stats! With her buff rapier to rip through cavalry and armor units and a surprising amount of defense to boot, Roxelana is truly the reincarnation of Hector himself.
Dancing Dragon girl go brrrrr
The beginner healer: consistent magic dps and healing
Lyn but sheās good. Sheās not quite as tanky as Roxelana, but sheās close in terms of raw damage. (Also 60 use prf killing edge with double the might is very nice.)
I donāt know how Jaro got a horse to pick up Luthor after watching him get ganged up by 50 Exile Berserkers and Sentinels, but heās pretty good. Legendary javelin for the win.
Big berserker boi, scourge of lance units and squishy mages everywhere. Just donāt leave him near any archers or swordies on enemy phase.
Kirsten but better. Not sure if I had to break out Kalevi to talk to her just to make sure I got her, but sheās really strong regardless, reliably doubling and ORKOāing just about everything with 2-3 range precision sniper rounds.
A second Petras never hurts, and this one can use swords! Gave him Judita and watched him go brrr.
Mage girl. Mediocre speed but she can use 1-3 range legendary Anima tome so who cares.
Filler paladin. Definitely fell off past Act 2 but sheās serviceable. At least she has enough speed to double somewhat reliably, although she has nowhere enough strength to deal more than chip damage.
The Iron Mountain himself. Got pretty lucky with his speed growths early on, and he actually started doubling some enemies, even into the late game. Capped Strength and nearly capped defense is always nice too.
Nice axereaver prf, meh strength but good speed, defense, and skill means good chip damage. Legendary lance user cause why not.
Nice late game healer that can also use S-rank light.
Magic flying orb that dies easy. Luna crit is funny.
Vivica but fast. Replacement dark user (And had Valentrix become replacement healer)
Finally, catshit herself. Sheās frail, slow, weak, and inaccurate, unless you use the glisterstone: then sheās just slow. Certainly no Myrrh, but she can hold her own.
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Progress report. You know that saying about how sharks will die if they canāt swim forward? Making a hack kind of feels like that. āv. 1.0ā, bullshit! Thereās always something that needs to be added.
So far itās looking like v. 1.05 is actually pretty stable throughout - underflow drake knights notwithstanding - so Iāve been able to put some time into what looks to be a pretty substantial patch. Nothing so groundbreaking as to halt any current playthroughs, of course, but just improvements here and there. Hereās some of what you can expect to see in v. 1.1:
My current playthrough file - the one that tested revamped C4 - has been picked up again, and now rests at the start of C11. Itās allowed me to have another in-depth look at Act 2, fixing small things here and there, while also making slight but significant tweaks to a couple of chapters. Most notably, C6, which should now flow a lot better and no longer have a tendency to be such a mosh pit of death in the west corridor; specifically by shifting recruitable and miniboss to the east. And thereās some slight QoL, too, in that the End of Act 1 and 3 scenes now auto-refresh Roxelanaās turn so you can clear it all in a single player phase; thanks to Bpat, UltraBlade and Vesly for helping me get it working.
(God, Iām glad I revamped C4. I always had this vague sense of foreboding every time someone got to it, like, āfuck, are they gonna hate it?ā That feelingās lifted at last.)
Right now the character balance is looking in a pretty good place, and Iām not planning to shift anyone around as of yet. Some characters are better than others - thatās going to happen when some of them get to be Drake Knights and Valkyries while others donāt - but I feel like if everyone has a place, and everyone (yes, even him) can be taken to endgame with minimal fuss, itās alright. The most likely changes would probably be slight growths boost to some Act 1 units, with whom the common perception is that they struggle to make the team later on. Even then, itās rare to see a final team that doesnāt have some Prologue units there.
Itās interesting and heartening to see discussions aboutā¦ I guess what passes for a meta in DoW, as more and more people get to the end. Blind FE is a great chance to test first principles in an absence of game knowledge, but I do find it fascinating to see discussions of what characters and approaches are most effective in the game. Itās probably not a surprise that I lurked efficiency tier lists a lot in the early 2010s. Itās a slightly egomaniacal thought to have, but I do wonder how peoplesā approaches would change on a second playthrough, and I wonder as well how low the turncount can be taken. My ironman run was 261 turns long, apparently, though with the changes to EoA1 and EoA3 taking it down to a single turn each, call it more like 250. Iām not an amazing or an amazingly fast player, so under 200 feels doable. If someone manages a particularly low time, Iād be interested to hear. All this to say, thereās good discussions being had on the Discord server, linked in the OP.
Which I guess leads into another thing Iād been thinking about - and bear with me, this is absolutely a stream of consciousness - when it comes to level of documentation. Conspicuously, thereās no growths visible in DoW, unlike most modern hacks. Thereās no recruitment guide in the OP, and there wonāt be; nor a secret guide, though locations are alluded to in the game. But at the same time, itās fun to see knowledge pass along through word of mouth. Not that DoW is an especially cryptic puzzle of a game. And sometimes, even I donāt know the answers. Is Evander good? Fuck, you canāt trust my judgement; I thought Hesterine was good!
In less self-indulgent matters, thereās significant aesthetic improvements to come. RandomWizard has completed the cycle and now revamped every map, even The Goddamn Ocean. As ever, Iāll need to play through to the end to make sure events still fire right, but thatās no hardship. Thereās also a few new portraits set to arrive, which Iām very excited about; as before, Iāll shunt phased-out mugs onto the Repo. Even a new credits sequence is on the cards, thanks to Alex!
But as the hack goes on, the scope for changes shrinks and shrinks. Partly because I donāt want to screw things up - sometimes even really innocuous changes can end up breaking things! - and partly just because thingsā¦ really are approaching a point where Iām basically happy with them. And now thatās a goalpost thatās always changing, of course; we make a thing as best we can, and it takes distance, and other peoplesā anecdotes, to find ways to improve them. If we could see them from the get-go, weād just make them right the first time, right? But there comes a time at which I just donāt have it in me to apply that final coat of polish. Partly because I forget the logic of some of what built it. Partly because Iām just out of energy. Jaded eyes donāt see well. There comes a point where you have to draw a line and say: yeah, thatāll do. That line is pretty close for me. Iām not burned out, by any stretch! Part of itās a comfort. If I never updated DoW again, Iād still be satisfied in the product, I think.
Anyway, Iāll probably release v. 1.1ā¦ umā¦ when my current file ends up clearing the game. Taking it about a chapter a day, that means like a week or two. Iām (finally!) moving back to Australia in late May, so thatās going to lead to some disruption in the update schedule, so I fucking hope v. 1.1 ends up stable. The roadmap for DoW ends at FEE3ās release; whatever version is there is the one Iām content to sit on until the end of time, bar major bug fixes. Next project after that? Weāll see. I have a lot of ideas, but not yet enough to pin a whole game on.
11 Likes
How would you feel if the playerbase does the old-school, Game-faqs thing and builds a tier list and talks about pros and cons and giving a ranking to the recruitable characters?
I had assumed the no growths and no guides had been intentional to encourage experimenting with the cast, and the tweaking on character balanced made it pretty clear you didnāt want a ādefinitiveā best team going into Act 3/endgame, but you would be open to hearing our thoughts on favorites and qualities of characters comparitively?
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Sure, Iām always happy to hear thoughts. People will still naturally be drawn to experiment and play blind, I feel, so long as there isnāt something right by the download link telling them basically to play with a guide open.
Part of it might also be wariness from back in Dream of Five, where we had so, so many secrets, that were largely very impactfulā¦ and then justā¦ said where to get them. And the game was balanced around getting them. So they werenāt a fun surprise, just an obligation; unmarked treasure chests you were expected to get, which fucked over blind players. But I feel discussion is always healthy and welcome.
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I mean, if someone absolutely, positively has to know every secret, the event flags are viewable in FEbuilder, not that Iām encouraging that kind of thing.
The game still feels a little tight with the purse-strings if you decide to spare everyone and not sell every stealable elixir, So if any of the secrets were, say, finding gemstones, that might sway how strongly someone would want to know every secret. To your credit, there isnāt much punishment for sweeping the stage in maybe half the maps, and thereās only a couple timing based secrets I personally missed out on (anecdotally, I only just missed getting the drop from the sage general in the fog-of-war escape at the end of act one in a previous run)
No secretās feel vital, unless you are having a rough iron-man and are hurting for units and funds, I would say
Finally had a chance to pick this up and give it a try. I played the first 2 maps and took a peek at the 3rd.
Overall the game is cool. Aesthetics are solid. Story seems to be setting itself up well. I can tell a lot of thought went into scripts and characterization. I have few notable gripes and will keep playing. Since youāre still doing work on the hack, Iād like to share some more detailed feedback on the opening 2 maps.
Prologue
The game does a nice job of making the ācountry by country opening sprawlā feel more immediately relevant. It was well executed. However, the opening turn left me feeling deflated.
The optimal play seems to be to chuck Pavel on the forest and one round the axe dudes on enemy phase. A few things: 1) it feels awkward for the first turn to involve waiting with everyone on terrain, especially when youāre immediately given a dancer who should make for more engaging player phase strategies. Instead, I head for the forest and wait. 2) the enemies being too weak. They were clocking about 10 hit and died in a single round to my thief.
My suggestion here is to remove some of the enemies here and up their quality. While waiting on the forest is a fine strategy, it starts the game off on the wrong foot. Charging headlong outnumbered feels off, but it also could stink to lose on the first turn by suffering from success and dying to a bunch of low probability hits. Instead, I think the opening turn would be much stronger if it incentivized attacking and had scarier enemies to give the player a better sense of whatās to come. Putting the player on attack immediately will help things move more briskly given the objective and map size.
In general, the enemy quality in the opener felt low. I was surprised to be doubling and one rounding so regularly. I think beyond the first group (which I call out largely because the first turn on the first map is super critical), the prologue map would be improved by removing enemies across the board and making who remains stronger. Given how many different units you get throughout, the quality gulf makes these differences less relevant, because everyone outclasses them.
While I appreciated the cinematic sequences between each turn, and all of the writing was solid and entertaining, it did slow down the map. If I was to be super critical, Iād say split this up into two maps (since you already have 2 bosses), but I think you can trim down the total playtime on the map considerably by reducing the number of enemies. I would also axe the reinforcements from the back. They donāt force me to move faster and Renate/Petras just solo them. They feel like busywork.
I left the map with a better sense of the world and where the story was going, but the moment to moment gameplay was a bit too easy because of the power gulf. It took me about 35ish minutes to go from opening to save screen, which is pretty long for a prologue IMO. Anything you can do to shorten this will help, and I think the easiest way to do that is to 1) remove enemies 2) remove back reinforcements. Buffing enemy quality to compensate for fewer enemies will make the moment to moment gameplay feel better, since thinking about matchups will be more rewarding.
Chapter 1
Similar concerns with enemy quality, so Iād say what I noted above still applies. Same issue w/ back reinforcements. They are more of a distraction than a threat, and theyād be better off gone or replaced with something scary.
The note on unique shop items is a good touch, but I donāt recall the shop having anything I couldnāt buy in preps. This feels like a miss and would be an easy change. I could see introducing an expensive staff being potentially interesting, like a light rune staff. It would also make the Jaro/cash tradeoff more immediately impactful if immediately there was good stuff to spend money on. I picked Jaro, but the immediate feedback of nothing exciting to use my cash on made it feel like a more obvious choice, especially when I have 5K to start.
Chapter 2
Havenāt played it yet, but one thing Iāll note (and this is largely personal preference), is that Kirsten and Goran joining when they do and being immediately benchable feels off. I am generally of the belief that every unit deserves at least a half chapter in the sun before being sent off to the bench forever. I probably wouldāve introduced them to start chapter 2 and made them force deployed instead.
Kirsten also outclasses Radu largely because of the speed gap (about 4 points) and comparable bulk. With higher enemy quality, Raduās STR advantage may matter more, but Kirsten isnāt too far behind in anything Radu excels at, and sheās better where he isnāt by a wider margin.
Goran/Hesterine is closer. In general though, I like the flood of units you get quickly. I dig having choices immediately and having to debate who to bench. In general, given the enemy volume and lower quality, I am valuing bulk since the armors are taking hardly any damage and can still double occasionally. Not a bad thing at all.
In short, buffing enemy quality and reducing volume will go a long way in helping these early maps. I assume quality gets better, but early on I havenāt had to use my brain much each turn, instead sending whomever I want with impunity. Making enemies scarier will help a lot here.
I recognize this feedback is pretty granular and in the weeds. Happy to chat through it and keen to play more over the next few weeks.
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Probably shouldnāt bury the lede, so first up, general update: new patch on Monday (probably).
Which means that this critiqueās perfectly timed; and the granular and specific is always appreciated! Particularly on the early maps, where given the sheer number of times Iāve had to go through them, itās difficult for me to really think anything new about them myself; I kind of just run them on autopilot, these days. And I appreciate being open to discussion; at times it can be hard to balance my desire to address critique with my desire to avoid coming across as confrontational.
Your points on enemy bloat are noted; while reducing enemy spawn counts was a priority of early map changes, the back reinforcements in P and C1 are basically unchanged since the original. Similarly, a more thoughtful layout of the initial spawn on P could still hit the same notes (āwow Roxelana is stronger than random thugs, I should rely on her, also I can use the dancer to move safely into the woods, also my tempo is fucked if I let her get hitā) while feeling more proactive.
As for P, the intent is basically that every recruit gets their time to shine, and thatās meant to be the armoursā - as well as an incentive to go get them - but on reflection, that point gets made better with fewer and stronger enemies that they can still handle, that doesnāt take so long theyāre basically out of the map afterwards. Theyāre essentially a soft timer. And yeah, the 2x3 cavaliers could stand to be a single, tougher wave.
I take your point about the C1 store; several of the early shops are slightly awkward casualties of the period before preps could sell steels and throwables. Slim weapons are the main draw of the early shops; most players seem to find them preferable to steels, though in theory theyāre a sidegrade. Which may also mean steel could use a buff, but changing steel weapons en masse would feel like a significant enough change to warrant another full playthrough of the game. Perhaps at a later date. The thing Iād be concerned about if there was an overtly powerful object in the C1 shops is making players regret keeping Jaro alive at the expense of an opportunity they didnāt know was coming. As it stands, the cashflow tends to be more about managing attrition than flashy purchases, at least until the endgame.
Yeah, the not force-deploying units is mostly to my own preference. I never like feeling as though my preparation slots are being constricted - unsurprisingly, I never finished FE7 HHM - so generally when units get parachuted into the team itāll be after preps, to feel more like a bonus unit auditioning for a permanent place. Kirsten and Goran didnāt seem to have any story reason to do more than slot into the team between chapters, so thatās how it plays out.
Interested to see your thoughts as you progress through the hack! Glad itās seemed to be a positive experience on the whole, and hopefully the hackās evolution across later chapters will address some of the teething problems in the early ones.
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