I have an idea for a ROM hack (that will probably never come to be if I’m brutally honest) and I was wondering if skills are something that is a modern standard, as most modern hacks I’ve seen have skills in them. Skills seem quite polarizing to me because some people describe things derogatorily as ‘Skill Emblem’, while others call modern games with no skills ‘boring’. Are these opinions just the vocal minorities on both sides, or are skills really just something you can do if you want?
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yeah just do what you want tbh
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I’m something of a fundamentalist, but I’m definitely not the norm. I prefer games that keep very much in line with the traditional GBA format – no “skills” (outside of hardcoded ones) and minimal custom classes.
That said, there are niches for both sides. I wouldn’t say skills are the standard since hacks like DoW exist and are beloved despite lacking skills.
Make what you want to make, if it appeals to you that’s all that matters.
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At the end of the day, your hack is your hack and you should make what appeals to you. Something I have noticed is that among the most popular hacks that use skills, they are all pretty limited. Vision Quest is 6 years old at this point but still generally seen as the platonic ideal (which is not to say it doesn’t have flaws): each unit gets one personal skill, another class skill when they get to level 15, and another when they promote. Dark Amulet does the same thing without the level 15 skill.
I’m pretty sure what most people get frustrated with “Skill Emblem” about is trying to factor in 5-6 skills per unit into their decision making every turn, it’s very mentally exhausting. That’s why when you look at something like Cerulean Crescent with its crazy skills, it still works because everyone has one, maybe two if you have them use their prf, and once you learn them and have your squad picked out the only thing the game asks of you is to learn/consider learning a new character or two each chapter.
Of course, you don’t really have to have skills at all. There’s plenty of successful hacks that forego them altogether, just look at NQR’s output. Food for thought.
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I think SkillSys in particular gets used a lot because it includes framework to support a bunch of additional game mechanics FE8’s engine doesn’t have by default. Even when skills are used, though, the specific approach to them varies; there are definitely projects that incorporate them more sparingly in addition to ones that go all in on them.
I’d say just make your project however you want to make it! FE games from all across the series have their fans, skills or no skills. Hell, the fanbase almost certainly wouldn’t have figured out hacking the (largely skill-less) GBAFE titles to the highly-advanced degree that they have if the base games weren’t well-liked! I think there’s no reason fan projects can’t be at least as varied as the official titles in terms of features.
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this is an old poll but its findings could be interesting to you Skills, skills and skills
this is something ive also given some thought to so i have a decent amount to say about it. general buzz around skills is that no skills or limited skills is what people like and thats the route the most popular hacks take. the tellius and judgral systems are the target in terms of scale, partially due to easier manageability and partially due to those games being generally well liked (including me, i think fe5s skill system is the best in the series). theres a lot of people on both sides and most people are ambivalent so i wouldnt worry about audience size if your skill usage is limited (important). most people on this forum dont think modern style skill stacking works in gba due to the lack of unit customization for skill routing without extensive custom work to support it as well as the small screen size and clunky menus of gbafe.
on distribution: for the reasons mentioned above opinions trend more negative when it comes to class skills compared to personal skills. generics with multiple skills were also a common point of pain back when unadorned use of the default skill system was more common. the most popular form of distribution is a limited range of personal skills, 0-2 in most cases, to add flavor to units. skill manuals are the sickest shit ever.
on skill types: they range from beloved to maligned and ill go over them all. this will be in somewhat descending order of common opinion
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combat arts are probably the most acclaimed. theyre player phase only and therefore can have some crazy effects without being bs. several different resource systems have been tried to balance these out, such as cooldowns in berwick, hp in echoes, or durability in 3h. mostly player only. i like them
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purely movement skills such as shove or non combat utilities that dont fit other categories are also quite beloved. these are the most likely to be class skills and to be found on every character in the roster. if theyre personal skills theyre a good way to add utility that cant throw a wrench into the numbers machine. also player only. these are sick and youd have to have a serious stick up your ass to dislike them
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conditional boosts like blows are the most consequential in the default version of the skillsystem that comes packed with febuilder and the number of these is what i find dictates how skill emblemy a game is. in my experience its best to limit the distribution of these by only giving out 0-2 to individual units and/or by stacking them on specific gimmick units ie “this is the wrath build character whose damage dealt scales hard with damage received” or “this unit lacks in some areas at base but makes up for it on player phase by stacking blow skills”. these probably make the most sense on generic enemies but they should be small in scale, maybe one per class, and anything that makes enemies super dodgy or bulky and/or significantly tougher on enemy phase should be avoided like the plague. bosses with these are pretty sick and it can create some interesting boss encounters that vanilla just isnt capable of. these are the skills that make or break skillsys games
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positional boosts like charisma are neat but need to fall into a very tight window in terms of balancing between worthless noise and game breaking. enemies with these are generally a nono as it makes calculations a bit of a nightmare. i could take or leave these
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its not hard to find people who HATE proc skills like astra. GENERIC ENEMIES WITH PROC SKILLS WILL MAKE PEOPLE DESPISE YOU. basically just fancy crits and a minor reliability booster and probably should be treated as such unless your stats are inflated to make the proc chances higher. i like them on units who already have overkill combat for a bit of aesthetic fun. extreme moderation required
all that being said, its your game and you can do what you want with it. people like all sorts of nonstandard garbage. i like gaiden. rules are for beginners
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Do note that, IIRC, skill manuals are bugged in the default version of skillsys and can become different skills if you convoy them (+ save?). I think Holoemblem ran into this issue? I forget exactly how it’s fixed.
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Yesn’t. They’re really common in PMEs as another way for submitters to differentiate and customize their units, but I don’t think I see 'em often in other projects. I think it’s a slight shame since I think vanilla GBA emblem is a little flat- not a lot, boring’s an overstatement- and I like Awakening, but at the end of the day “do what you want lmao, I’m not your prison warden.”
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Part of the wonders of making a rom hack is if you make what works for you as an ideal amount of skills, there will be people who end up enjoying it.
There’s definitely many different ways to look at how many skills you want in your hack. Of course, some hacks like Sun God’s Wrath or TMGC are incredibly skill focused. Your characters have many different skills and those are what become most important in a unit’s balance.
Other hacks, especially ones made with fe7 as a base, don’t use skills. Dark lord and the maiden of light, The road to ruin, and many other hacks exist that are both enjoyable and simple.
There’s also hacks that use them very sparingly. Vision quest gives everyone not on a mount shove, one personal skill, and two class skills, one at base, and one at level 15 unpromoted. It keeps these skills very simple, and I find it enjoyable as skills can enhance a character without becoming overly centralizing.
The Four Kings has skillsystem installed, but most of its skill usage comes from it’s gimmick of giving everyone a personal weapon, as some (But not all!) prfs in that game give the wielder a personal skill when equipped.. There are a select few units that use it for convoy access, and I believe there’s like two units in the whole game with personal skills. It’s used extremely sparingly, and finds ways to add complexity and gimmicks elsewhere.
TLDR: Do what you feel is best and don’t worry about it.
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