I’ll be honest - your first generalisation of JRPGs being filled with bubbly cherry characters despite having games such as Octopath Traveler, Etrian Odyssey Untold, lead me to not accept that statement at face value. And these two examples are within more ‘medievalish’ scenarios.
Yakuza: 0 is there, the last SMT (V, I think?) is there, and so forth. Hell, we even got the long awaited to the remake of Super Mario RPG.
You are putting a lot of games that are effectively only tied by its genre in the same basket, despite being completely different games altogether. People here will probably and possibly give you a myriad examples of games, and I’m all for that.
And if you are to argue that you’ve been ‘long enough’, hasn’t too everyone else here? What’s ‘long enough’ for you?
this is getting heated. I’d be into that but I think we’re just gonna go in circles between modern and classics. At the end of the day it’s all preference from both sides isn’t it?
I’m not trying to sway or convince anyone. I’m not trying to offend either. I’m being perfectly truthful when I say Nintendo and Intelligent Systems have chosen pandering and fan-service, in exchange for sales and hype, instead of elaborate on the complex moral narrative of feudalism and medieval warfare.
1: Fire Emblem never was about feudalism or medieval warfare. You don’t get sieges. You don’t get slavery, nor the poor conditions of the farmworkers, the nobility’s false front or decadence, the corruption of the church, the exploitative nature of guilds and the bourgeoise.
You aren’t shown poverty, scarcity. You aren’t shown futility, nor mutinies, desertions, and the type of ‘accurate events’ you’d ever get on more real events.
It was never about this.
2: There are other games that follow that narrative line of more medievally-accurate (which anyways would require some changes in Fire Emblem because Warp Staves, fliers and the ability to use siege tomes might, uh, be troublesome) events or types of warfare, but Fire Emblem isn’t one of them.
This is a subject mentioned quite some times, considering that last stands on castles were quite rare, and breaching the inside of a castle just lead to surrender or defeat. This has been established and stated by 7743 himself already.
By claiming that you are stating a “truth”, you are already asking people to see your truth as THE truth. You are already attempting to convince others into your point of view.
I find this statement genuinely baffling, First the term “Loli” typically refers to girls less than or around 10 years old [Also usually used by more unsavory types], of the characters of the Switch games, only Anna and Jean from engage fits this description fully, The characters in Three houses are very much teenagers.
Children and Child-like characters have existed for a long time in fe, here is a list.
Tiki, Maria [Fe 1,3,11,12]
Delthea [FE 2, 15]
Fae, Raigh, Lugh, Chad, Lilina [FE 6]
Nino [FE 7]
Myrrh, Ross, Ewan, Amelia [FE 8]
Mist, Rolf, Sothe, Tormad, Sanaki [FE9]
Rolf, Sanaki [FE 10]
Nowi, Nah, Ricken[FE 13]
Elise, Sakura, Hayato, Nyx, Kana, Midori, Percy[FE 14]
If you are put off by unsavory use of these characters [such as with Anna’s jp support] uh I point at Nowi and Nah being so much worse in design and character respectively, and just fates in general.
While I myself find these elements disturbing, disgusting and concerning it is not a product of the switch era and pretending it is, is well inaccurate.
as for the costume comments, uh I guess? Three houses was mostly uniforms which fits the school section and post time skip is mostly realistic-ish fantasy armour.
And engage is relatively standard for the series, and not that far off, the costuming in 3ds fe, except less sexual, regardless I say fe has never really not had some fantastical, or character based costume design, Sigurd is literally riding around suited up for a ball or some shit, Alec wears a turbin, Saber has an eyepatch, literally every dancer ever, Elffin has a bird that sits on his shoulder the whole time he exist.
Uh um my man Three houses does the narrative and morals stuff You can argue how well but it does it, and uh Fates had way more traditional fan service than either switch game did, if you want to say that engage was pandering with the emblems than sure? but we have evidence that it was intended as an anniversary game, which this would fit with, besides I don’t think fan service on it’s own is bad, like too much yeah but we really haven’t had that outside heroes, which is it’s whole reason to exist [outside of making kazillions of dollars].
IS HQ: “A new month has come. Thirty minutes of writing few dialogue lines will be all I need to complement the hard work of voice actors and artists to print another load of money.”
“All thanks to the eternal wheel of powercreep and fanservice.”
“Hmm. Nino’s belly might get cold. I could make a religion out of this.”
I’m not saying any of what all y’all are saying. I’m not getting caught up in all that minutiae. I’m just recording my opinion about Fire Emblem on a forum dedicated to Fire Emblem.
I haven’t played FE13-17, but through conversation, I’d say I know enough to form an opinion about the direction of the series currently.
Personally, I’m not exactly interested in where the modern series has gone. the lack of unit identity and a strong story to follow just doesn’t sound like my cup of tea. As such, I do understand your concern with where the series is going. Often our first experience with a series will color how we see a franchise “should” be.
But the older Fire Emblem games are something I struggle to see existing nowadays. The shake up with Three Houses is, in my opinion, what the franchise needed ever since FE12. Now that doesn’t mean I agree with everything FE16 has changed for the franchise. Just, in my opinion, it took steps the franchise needed to take for a while now to create its own identity.
Fleshing out our main cast more, giving us an interesting and multilayered villain, which is something we haven’t seen since Lyon 20 years ago. Generalizing Magic to be less complicated and bloated, which is something this franchise has been struggling to do since its inception, adding instrumental variety to its soundtrack, giving it a very distinct feel compared to other JRPGs, and so on.
In my opinion, Three Houses did a lot for the franchise that affected it in a positive way. Just because its different to how it was 20 years ago, doesn’t mean its all bad.
I’m not going to touch on the main point of the thread, not into debates and whatever, but don’t you actually get more of this sorta stuff in FE 9/10? Mostly 10-- may be misremembering since I’ve not played them in quite a while though.
We won’t though. People assign meaning to anything. Simple coincidences can be interpreted as fate just like that. We merely need two dots and a line to recognize a face. We’ll read in-between lines things that were never intended by the original artist, be they human or machine.
If you don’t like the direction the series is going in, then that is fine. I personally don’t like some things about the newer games either.
However, this post is filled with a lot of generalisation and a plethora of statements influenced by just your opinion. Also you describe some rough emotional and personal stuff happening and although it is brave of you to share this, it gives off the vibe that your message is driven by emotion and not per sé by arguments. As for the things you mention in the posts on this thread:
This sounds rather entitled to me. Why feel this way when you already have the games that you enjoy so much? I get that it may be tough to see developments not go the way you like, but that’s life! You already enjoyed a lot of FE titles, so why be emotional about this when the new FE does not match you vision? The gaming industry does not owe you anything. They try to make games for a lot of different people, not just you.
So basically, what I take from this whole section, is that you’re angry at the videogame industry not producing games for fun or creativity, but just for money. Also, there is no “right” reason to make a video game. This just sounds biased. There’s still plenty of games made with your idea of “right” intentions. Look at Elden Ring, Baldur’s Gate 3, The Little Nightmares Franchise and the whole damn indie scene. Heck, even student projects are games that are made for learning and fun, not just for money. Not everything is meant to be made to make as much profit as possible like you claim.
Like many others have pointed out, Fire Emblem has always had lolis. It also makes war seem like good ol’ fun, some games contain incest and there are war crimes being comitted. Don’t speak of a perfectly good franchise if you claim that some of those things are exactly what piss you off.
Also, considering every JRPG the same is just unfair to the creators of those games. You consider yourself to see the true “real” values of game making and that is (according to you) everything the modern FE Games are not. You claim that you think games should be made out of something else than the desire for money, but you also harshly disprove anything that does not fit your personal tastes and happens to be succesful. If every JRPG from the past 10 years is the same, you should love Echoes as much as Three Houses by the way. You’re disrespecting videogame creators and you are contradicting yourself.
So? That is the creative liberty video game creators have. They get to do what they want.
Also, please explain this “anime” stuff. Anime has a lot of different styles and genres and you’re describing very stereotypical anime tropes (which Fire Emblem has used ever since FE1 btw.) Once again you’re generalising an entire medium and at the same time shitting on the people who make art in said medium. Whilst some stuff that happens in anime is disgusting, do not go and write off an entire medium because you don’t like certain stereotypes of it. You’re not writing off every videogame now, are you? I also have opinions on games and anime alike, but I’m not going to throw the entire artistic medium in the trash because some instances have things I don’t like.
Also, big shock, the game that was made by JAPANESE DEVELOPERS has things in it that are common in JAPANESE MEDIA.
Yet you give no concrete claims to why they have done so. You claim to be not convince us, yet you keep saying things to “prove us wong” whilst not giving any examples or evidence of why you think the way you’re thinking. Also, Engage did not outsell Three Houses and that game was the most (what I think you mean at least) “anime” out of the two. The claim that Nintendo and IS choose for fan-service and pandering with their “anime” choices in the new games to just gain more money, is incorrect.
Also, like Ericc rightfully pointed out:
This is not a place to dump your frustrations and argue about something that, in reality, does not matter as much when it comes to people’s daily lives. I know it’s hypocritical of me to say this after writing a super long post about this, but I just can’t get why you claim to have the perfect ideas, vision and overall view of what, not only the Fire Emblem franchise, but also THE ENTIRE VIDEOGAME industry should be. Disagreeing with choices and creative decisions other people make is fine, but don’t get butthurt when things don’t go your way. Just play the older games if you like them so much and voice your dislikes in a proper and civil manner, rather than adding nonsense arguments and such a heavy but also not relevant human/humanity story to your opinions.
If you wish to change the gaming industry, then start making a game or send Intelligent Systems a mail with suggestions or something. Instead you choose to insult artists in different mediums, tell people that what they like is bad and generally whine about stuff that you dislike. Make a game yourself and show people how you can change the world with your own ideas and creative endeavours! That’s what this site is made for too! It’s made to share romhacks, creative ideas and overall changes to the standard! In fact, that is what Fire Emblem is about no? A small group of individuals, let by someone who wishes to end what they deem evil and bad, changing the course of the world for the better. They start small and end up altering the course of history in a good way.
Fire Emblem has been about changes starting small and ending up having a huge positive impact on the world. Go defeat that evil empire that you claim exists. But reading through all of your arguments, you (as a true OG Fire Emblem fan) seem not to understand this basic theme of the series you claim to love so much!
Even if I’m much more optimist and content about the state and future of Fire Emblem and jrpgs in general, and how FE as evolved. I can understand how you ended up feeling that way
But that’s why romhack and fangames exist, so that everyone can create and play Fire Emblem the way they want,without having to worry about how the mainline games are:
Like, if you love the GBA Fire Emblem, and you don’t find what you loved in FE in more modern entries, and what you really want is a new classical GBA Fire Emblem, there is a ton of them through the massive works of the romhacking community
And that’s why you shoudn’t despair !
When you talked about the old internet, I really feel this nostalgia since I lived it also, when I wasn’t on forums, irl with a friend as a kid we drawed our own maps and new classes to imagine how we would made a new FE game, but we had nex to no tools and only our imagination.
But nowadays, due to years of massive works by the community, there is tons of tools to make the Fire Emblem of your liking, be it something totally new and revolutional, or a more classical adventure to rekindle nostalgia
The prelapsarian fire emblem you’re opining for never existed. There are 0 FE games that contain “complex moral narratives” of any kind, let alone that tackle feudalism and medieval warfare. They’re fantastical games about grand heroes and long-lost relics and ancient dragons and mysterious cults and other things you can find in the player’s handbook for d&d. They can be fun, or bring up some interesting ideas, or have endearing characters and exciting moments, but they have always been stock standard adventure tales taking pages right from the books of modern anime. 30+ years later, what constitutes “modern anime” has changed drastically, and so have their books that FE’s been pilfering from. Engage sucked, sure, but the franchise has sucked many times before, so whatever. You even say you liked the 3DS games, which had a ton of these issues already.
Anyway I don’t usually say shit like this, but this post is genuinely fucking insane and it’s not really worth, like, earnestly engaging with it when it says stuff like this:
and this:
like… this is a guy making a whole thread about how he’s >>>>>> the game dev industry, because he’s real and a human and based and the proverbial chad to IS’s virgin. Why was this posted lol
You don’t, sorry. Not about this, at least, bc this is mostly nonsense.
Almost a dozen paragraphs about an imaginary new generation of evil ne’er-do-well game devs with no passion or talent at all, brought on because Engage was bad. 2023 was one of the best years in gaming history, you’re actively on a forum dedicated solely to game dev passion projects; if you stopped high-fiving yourself for being the last true game dev left, you might notice that you are surrounded by talented, enthusiastic, creative, and driven developers.
Instead of genuinely recognizing that passion, you have a whole villain monologue prepared about the shadow people you yourself call imaginary, while making a token effort with the whole saccharine “you guys… you’re also human beings” bit near the end. We know, bud. Thanks for the pep talk.
Have you ever actually played a fire emblem game? Because none of them ever tackle real social issues besides a surface level “racism bad” take so im not really sure where you got the idea that old fire emblems are in depth social commentaries. Even fe7, one of the fes you hold dear in your original post, only scrapes the surface of human/dragon and sacaen prejudice. The story is about 3 teens that save the world while going on a wacky adventure, not a deconstruction of real human philosophy and self examination
You know, I had written a huge post about the things I don’t like about the newest fire emblem games. Things like self insert, like making the girls more like “waifus” and less like interesting characters… And only after I posted it, I dared re-read the initial post and see this post for what it truly is…
And this is the best summary of what this thread is.
