As in the title - which type of promotion you enjoy the most I’m FE?
- Promotion items (knight crest, guiding ring, etc.)
- One promotion item (master seal or similar)
- Promotion on level (like in FE4)
- Automatic promotion (PoR)
As in the title - which type of promotion you enjoy the most I’m FE?
How are FE4’s and PoR’s promotion system’s different?
You choose when to promote after reaching level 20 in FE4 and it doesn’t reset the level and for PoR/RD it immeidately promotes you upon reaching level ‘21’. Although that doesn’t happen in the Japanese versions from what I recall.
My choice is
“Neither” cause I like all of them.
I like if a hack has some classes promoting by level up ( trainees )
I like to use promotion items per trees like Mages Flying and stuff
But I also like the possibility of having a single and rare item that can be used for all of them ( like Master Seal)
And I even like if a hack has no promotions at all
Or promotions just by events.
Like , that character in that specific situation is going to promote.
What I’m trying to say it’s that I like all of them and instead of choosing just one , i prefer to have a FE game with all of this mechanics inside. ( Just like FE8 which has promotional items , also master seal , by level up trainees and by event protagonists )
I like the flavour multiple promo items add to the classes, It’s cool and adds to world building that different classes need different items to promote, of course a cavalier and pegasus have different proofs of skill/markers of mastery, That is an aspect I think people forget with promotion items, they [at least before 3ds FE] are not magic items that change class, but badges/crest/equipment that denote a higher ranked soldier hence the master seal’s or knight crest’s appearance as a badge/emblem/crest. This is yet more flavour endless reclassing has robbed us of.
Master seals are good for general play since different classes needing specific items to promote can lock you out of promotion if you run out, [FE6 moment], as such I do like them also existing even with multiple promo items.
One thing the main series hasn’t done but that I like is having the different items determine promotion rather than class determining promo item use. e.g. needing x item for sage but y item for mage knight, and then master seal allowing choice. But with endless reclass I do not see that happening anytime soon.
I think Bishop, Baron, Bow Knight, Berserker, Bow Paladin, Basara, Blacksmith, and Barbarossa are the b types of promotions in the Fire Emblem series. Honorable mentions to Brigand and Brawler since you can technically promote into those too in Three Houses, though they’re not final tier classes.
…Haha but in all seriousness, maybe-unpopular opinion, but I’m a big fan of class-based promotion items. From a game design perspective, it allows for more granular pacing of who can promote and when, and how many of each T2 class the player can have as of which points in the story. Flavor-wise, I also just think it’s really cool.
I think Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones use my absolute favorite model here, where there are class-specific promotion items, but also rarer universal promotion items in the Earth and Master Seals.
Separated promotion items curates the experience of a playthrough more than master seals and ensures the player doesn’t overload on powerful classes.
That being said the experience of FE is inherently tied to the freedom of choosing who to deploy so being limited by what kind of promotion item you have betrays the experience of a Fire Emblem game. For all that I dislike his games Kaga made the right choice to do away with separated promotion items after his first Fire Emblem game.
If you fear the player overloading on certain classes and breaking the game then take responsibility as the designer to ensure that a class you give the player multiple of won’t destroy the game’s balance instead of giving an arbitrary restriction that could as a result hurt the player’s experience and creativity, especially in an Ironman environment where promotion isn’t a singular direct upgrade to your team but rather one that can be taken or wasted.
Im the biggest fan of the PoR/RD version because it forces me to level them up fully. The separate items kinda stinks cause it limits who can promote and when. Oh cool, i got a whip but no fliers. Thats a waste
Master Seals, easier to promote the unit you want to promote plus easier to sort.
Different promo items give the developer more control over the player’s tools, which could allow for more purposefully designed maps and such.
However, I think that a universal promo item is more interesting because it asks the player to prioritize some things over others. Classes get different things on promotion, mages get staff utility, healers get offensive magic, some classes get mounts, or skills, or whatever else. What you choose to do with your first couple of master seals is an important decision, while with classic promo items you just kinda throw it onto whoever’s in the proper class line that you’ve trained so far.
As much as I dislike modern FE’s reclassing systems, I think the master seal being universal is genuinely a good change, as long as it remains a rare item for most of the game.
master seal is better cuz it’s for everyone
Master Seal is the safest choice.
The reason is that the class you use depends on who you are.
Often I want to promote a mage , but all I can get is a Knight Crest or a Hero Crest.
I think the creators will be pleased because they will be able to eliminate useless items from the 255 available item slots.
One reason I would not choose Auto promoion is to make the Master Seal worthwhile.
The Master Seal as a reward for the thief race is well worth it.
Even after so many games I don’t like the master seal much.
In every master seal game I can think of, fliers get promoted first, always(if you have any).
There’s no reason to promote your regular infantry dudes until they’re the last ones left unpromoted.
Other than 3H (which doesn’t have a better system anyway) they’ve been doing master seal promotion pretty consistently since FE10 and this issue remains with it. Limiting master seal availability just makes it worse.
Well that just means that the fliers of the game are too powerful. In games such as Fates you don’t always want to promote fliers first due to other classes and the units in those classes having value.
Split promo items is a bandaid solution to this problem.
You’re harping on poor execution instead of the idea itself.
I find this type of comment to be confusing, talking about how the concept in question was handled poorly before instead of looking at the concept itself and it’s merits/demerits.
I don’t entirely agree with this assessment, personally. For one thing, I feel it needlessly separates out promotion item distribution as being somehow apart from how classes are balanced with respect to the player’s use of them. Every aspect of a class’s existence within a game—including prerequisites for promotion—is part of how that class is balanced, and I feel it’s fair game for designers to make use of every tool they made available to themselves in crafting class balance.
I’m also seeing perhaps a bit of an unspoken additional assumption in the statement that “…the experience of FE is inherently tied to the freedom of choosing who to deploy”. It’s not that I disagree with that per se, but your use of that as an argument seems to come with an assumption that that means “freedom of choosing who to deploy without being pressured to consider factors such as the long-term training of more growth-focused units or how your chosen team will fare against coming challenges”, which I don’t think has ever been (or should be!) the core design ethos of Fire Emblem. For building whatever team you want to take on a given Fire Emblem game to be fun, at least I personally feel that the choices you make there have to actually matter in terms of how you’ll have to approach each chapter, otherwise it just becomes “which portraits/battle animations/palettes would you like on your interchangeable blue units this playthrough”.
It also warrants mentioning that the Fire Emblem games that use the class-based promotion items model put several of each type of promotion item in the main game and always include at least one Secret Shop that sells promotion items, so if you really want to use more users of a given type of promotion item than you’ll be able to get promotion items for otherwise, you can.
Making a team with a high degree of overlap in class types is going to come with inherent drawbacks in any game where you have the option to do that; not even just Fire Emblem. I’d actually argue that those drawbacks are a part of the identity and appeal of making that kind of team in a video game; to challenge yourself to manage without what that team lacks, and to get as much mileage as you can out of what they have. In Fire Emblem games with class-based promotion items, figuring out how you’re going to handle a scarcity of promotion opportunities is one of the unique challenges a high-promotion item-overlap playthrough puts before you; part of the distinct experience of using that kind of team.
Now, it’s obviously completely fair to not personally find that aspect enjoyable, but I don’t think it’s “objectively bad game design” or that it “betrays the experience of a Fire Emblem game”.
Huh? Are you implying that FE players in general always promote the Fliers first? Sorry if I got it wrong, I’m just confused on this particular quote you said.
In most Fe games with a master seal, a player should promote their fliers first if they want to be as efficient as possible. Fliers are very consistently one of the strongest units or will turn into one of the strongest units on promotion. Class promo items mitigate this issue by having fliers compete with each other instead of with infantry.
That does not apply to all people. People have different tastes, if you think Fliers are the strongest units, some will think Generals are better. Another thing about efficiency, not all people are required to play efficiently, some people just play for fun without worrying about the other features.
It does to some extent depend on playstyle, and obviously everybody has their own personal biases and tastes in units. Fliers are, however, able to accomplish quite a lot when used well, regardless of playstyle, and so are regarded by many Fire Emblem fans as well worth investing in.
If players want to promote fliers first they should’ve the freedom to do so.
Out of all the solutions split promo items is honestly the worst. I don’t want the game to tell me what units i should use and what i shouldn’t