FEE3 2020: The post-mortem thread. Learnings & opportunities as we head into 2021

I had a rant post planned, but I can’t bring myself to actually say it after pandan’s well-expressed takes. Big thanks to him and the other organizers for making this happen; I’m sorry for not stepping up more when it counted.

In lieu of getting involved in the longer conversation, I wanted to instead put a bow on the fundraiser. In total, by my count, we raised $2904 for RAINN (the ticker itself says $24XX; someone privately sent me a $500 receipt that they weren’t comfortable publicizing). That’s awesome! Thanks to everyone who contributed to forcing me to break open my gacha piggy bank the cause.

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Lovely post, summed up most of my thoughts on this topic, I would hope this would mean for a better future for FEE3.

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so dark and edgy

anyway

the amount of people who willingly choose to be unhelpful, petulant children is just staggering, forcing us to literally shadowban comments (yes that’s why no one saw your stupid tlp2 comments), delete some, and making serious considerations for others

the project content (not the quality) is also something that needs to be seriously addressed. we were literally having a fundraiser for RAINN. not entirely in response, but with the recent controversies in the community in mind. and we really received projects that decided to either overly sexualize themes or outright literally talk about these sorts of topics in a jovial manner.

as someone who always tries to see the positives, i’m really struggling here. i went in expecting to have a good time and was met with a garbage fire. what exactly was the goal in this? do you go around to relay for life and the like with this kind of attitude? no of course not because it’s “pRoFeSsIoNaLlY oRgAnIzEd aNd tHiS iSn’T”. sorry none of us are paid to run this event, sorry nothing ever seems to be good enough, sorry every problem (a term i’ll use loosely) seems to be the end of the world. mistakes happen from time to time, i don’t think there was a single issue that arose that warranted the response it got. thumbnails, no. video cuts, no. surprise video (jesus christ, a surprise video, of all things)
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no.

idk what to even say anymore, i’m sick of it all. this has been the most frustrating fee3 event i’ve ever been a part of, and that includes the one where people accused me of being trans-phobic and subsequently boycotted the event.

i’m not saying we’re blameless either, or that i am. for sure i could have tried to take a larger role in handling the LPers, or with the video editing, or with dealing with the amount of backlash, but i did not.

tl; dr version
we need to do better

:v:

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Sorry your experience with FEE3 this year was so checkered, Dan. Ya’ll did a good job given the length of the event.

I’ll go right out and say it – FEE3’s grown too big for its britches now.

Ten years ago when the event was new, the ROM hacking side of the community was small and insular, but mighty. Mel and I did our best to work with Arch to get the word out, though it was still a very small event. There were some hiccups, but it ended up well. We struck a format that worked, and it did… for a little while.

But FEE3’s a big boy now, and with its size comes much more accessibility and responsibility to all parties involved. What worked a few years ago is not liable to work any more. The community should strive to help streamline the event, throttle its intake and provide a palatable service for everyone.

I echo the sentiment that recordings should be smaller - I remember Ghast saying and employing a similar ruleset for FEE3 2016. I thought it was a little restrictive at the time, but now I feel like that should’ve been the norm from the start. Quality control is a big issue too; I stand by the fact that everyone should get a fair shot, but we also have to set ourselves to a higher standard if we want to show our worth to the community at large.

Now I’m not the kind of guy who can really give good ideas to improve the event; during my time as FEE3’s host over the years I saw myself more as a messenger than a consultant, but I definitely don’t want FEE3 to go away - it’s a longstanding part of the FE ROM hacking community and it absolutely deserves its time to shine. However as things stand now, I can only feel comfortable as an observer and consumer of the event, hoping it doesn’t collapse in on itself from behind the scenes.

FEE3 needs to change for the better, and I know it can happen.

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The community needs to change first.

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Didn’t we already have this last year? Am I imagining things?

iirc we had videos at 10AM 1PM and 4PM EST. My hack was a Day 8 10AM one iirc.

I think we need shorter videos. The FE7x video is more in line with what we should try and have most videos be like in the future. Show off some graphics and unique mechanics, maybe do a teaser for the story, and be done with it. When you think about what the real E3 is like, it’s essentially just a bunch of trailers stitched together with LPs after, and that format might be better. It might also be worth cutting down the amount of projects shown and having projects with not very much progress all be shown in one trailer video of “keep an eye on these new hacks on the way!” but I don’t think that’s a good idea.

Another thing that might be worth looking at is trying to expand the reach of the FEU channel or bringing back some of the big names in the community to host videos. Most of the videos this year don’t have as many views as the ones from last year, and that’s probably because they’re on a relatively new channel. I can understand why they wouldn’t want to, but it might be worth asking Mageknight, Ghast, or even Mekkah or Phoenixmaster if they can help with outreach and maybe even hosting events.

I’m not very involved with the community, so it’s disappointing to hear about the behind the scenes problems and I’m sorry things were so stressful, but I’m very appreciative of all the work everyone did this year and enjoyed seeing the progress everyone has made over the year.

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I’ve been thinking about a solution for viewer fatigue, making videos shorter, making things more concise, and doing that without heaping a massive amount of work on the organizers.

(Quick TL:DR: Start each day of the event with a quick summary video of what’s upcoming. Also, put new projects at the start of the event and returning projects at the end.)

The solution I came up with: Make one video per day of the event (ie; it would be 18 videos for this year) that quickly showcases and summarizes the projects being displayed. Then, a few hours later, post the LP-format videos, or full trailers, or whatever else.

Let’s Plays are not particularly interesting to watch, they have a huge time investment, and the commentary quality can differ from person to person. When you watch an LP you’re often not getting any insights on what makes the project unique and interesting. The majority of LP commentary is typically “Oh wow, a critical. Ha, he hit! Gosh, that animation sure looks cool.”

The problem is, let’s plays are not inherently interesting, but even more important, they do not serve the purpose of FEE3 itself; showing off the projects the community has made.

Let me posit a question: What is the ultimate point of FEE3? I believe its function is to bring awareness to people about cool new projects in the community, as well as to update long-time viewers about the progress of older projects.

If we assume that is the case, then there is one type of LP that genuinely works for FEE3, and that is a developer interview. Hearing from the dev their goals for the project while someone LP’s the submission is actually very interesting.

If you’re going to do longform videos, this is the best and most effective way to pull them off. Yes, the commentary was a tad stilted here and there, and yes, the microphone quality wasn’t amazing, but it perfectly accomplished the goal of FEE3.

However, another issue is that many, possibly most developers don’t have the time or ability to provide this kind of insightful and useful commentary about their vision for their project. Some people don’t have microphones, others live in houses with paper thin walls (see: me. This is why I don’t make youtube videos anymore, because it’s awkward having people hear me talk to myself) and a host of other reasons.

So, if longform developer commentary is the best method of accomplishing FEE3’s goals, but it’s hard to pull off en-masse, then we’re back at my original suggestion: Start-of-day Summary Videos.

Imagine if at 6 AM each day, a FEE3 video dropped that would take about, oh, say, ten minutes to talk about the projects being featured that day. 2.5 minutes per project. Write a script for each video, record the commentary, and use clips that the LPers submitted to play in the background while the designated commentator speaks about those projects.

These were day 1’s projects. Assuming you were to go back in time and retroactively apply this sort of summary video, you would start by talking about Vision Quest’s history, Pandan’s goals, and other topical things. Then, 2.5 minutes in, you transition to a similar bit about Last Heavenly Throne. Rinse and repeat. You’d end up with 18 videos in total, one for each day of the event.


Finally, one more suggestion. FEE3 puts a lot of preference and favoritism towards certain projects. FE7x is the obvious one, but there are others too. Frankly, I don’t actually care. So long as projects aren’t outright excluded, slighted, or ignored, it’s a whatever to me. That being said, I’ve seen people complain about this, too. So, I propose for next year you divide the event into three segments. I’ll use this FEE3 as the example.

Days 1-8: Brand new projects only. Start off the event with cool new projects that weren’t here for the last FEE3. To avoid bias, choose the order with a randomizer, or group them by similarity. We had an FE9 demake this year as well as Sacred Echoes; they’re both demakes, so why not group them together? I don’t remember if Sacred Echoes was in the last few FEE3’s, but assuming it wasn’t, it could be cool to put the demakes together. Why not have a whole ‘demake day,’ eh?

Days 9-12: Showcases for things like new community tools, updates to tools, animation showcases, etc.

Days 13+: Returning veterans! Once again, I recommend either grouping them by similarity, or by using RNG to determine the order.

One reason I bring up this second issue, of favoritism, is because ‘big old projects’ not only started the event, but ended it, too. I get not wanting to start off with the equivalent of a wet fart. I get that starting with some ‘mediocre’ new project would be a lame way to start the event. Even so, there are countless cool new projects that keep popping up; finding a few that have suitable quality for a day 1 banger shouldn’t be too hard. Newbies should get the first section, and vets should finish us off with an explosion of awesome.

That’s it. Those are my suggestions.

TL:DR, short intro videos for each day - start with newbies and finish with returning vets.

Edit:

One last thing. This needs to not happen. There is nothing more gross than when someone uses FEE3 as a moment to shame or attack a project. I don’t actually know which video Mermur is referring to here (I haven’t watched even half of FEE3 because, well, it’s long) but I remember at least two instances in past FEE3’s where the commentator(s) would shit on the project they were playing. It’s tasteless, rude, and leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I can’t even remember which videos they were, since they were a long time ago (and Grandfather Klok is old) but I remember getting very angry at the presentation of said videos.

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I think this combined with a higher bar to present would be best. Accessibility to hacking is much easier, so I think that would establish balance with “look at all this new stuff” and “it looks fine”.

Due to the scope of the FEE3, we need another format to do the event.

We can make something like Nintendo Direct/Treehouse, in where the main video shows trailers of the projects, and afterwards the LPs are added by schedule.
In that way people who have little spare time can watch the trailers of all the projects, and if something caught their attention, they will watch the LP for the project.

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The problem with both of these suggestions (and the reason why I spent so much time talking about day-intro-videos) is that trailers are a lot of work to make; substantially more than an LP. I don’t see trailers or curated essay-style videos being a thing; it’s far too much of a time and work investment for the organizers. 18 small videos is also a step up in workload, but I think it’s a more reasonable suggestion overall and will accomplish the actual function of FEE3.

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As someone who is really really really new, (I literally didn’t know what a discord server was til like 2 weeks ago), my opinion matters very little but I will disagree with one thing that pandan said in his first post:

I’m not saying y’all should be grateful that people are doing this for you for free

I think some gratitude would go a long way actually. None of this has to exist. Some strangers on the internet got together and made all this for their pure love in a topic. That’s really amazing. No one is obligated to do any of this. Imagine taking time away from your family to film yourself playing a video game because you truly love it and want to share that joy with as many people as you can. That’s fantastic and only adds more good to the world. We should encourage that in every shape and form!

I don’t know anyone personally and I’m sure we all come from different backgrounds from all over the world, but everyone here has at least an internet connection and has “some” time to spend on a very niche topic. That’s a luxury most people in the world don’t have.

I am grateful I can spend time with others that share an appreciation of the beauty of a well-designed FE map or can discuss intricate details of weapon balancing. So thank you to anyone that contributed to the FEE3 Youtube series and to everyone that helped organize it. I feel so lucky to have a life where I can spend a few hours a week reading and watching what you all are up to! Keep up the good work everyone! :slight_smile:

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I really like Klok’s idea, though in a different manner. We could have something similar to what we had this year, but more restrained. Have two videos a day, one being shorter, perhaps a technical showcase or trailer for a hack, and the other being a 20-30 minute gameplay video. The longer vid would showcase in the morning, and the shorter in the afternoon. This would give people the chance to watch the longer video at whatever time they are available, and the shorter video, which would take less time to watch, later. I also think that having full gameplay videos isn’t the way to go, maybe have a single, early game chapter to act as a kind of trailer.

This has been my point of view, now here’s a cat.

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We should form a LPers collective and upload regular vids on the unified FEU channel. that way i can reach more than my 10 subs

A collective youtube channel could highlight whatever we want such as LPs or the occasional interview/trailer. We could hold onto videos and release them at regular intervals, rather than dumping a long LP series all at once. Regular uploads = more subs for next year’s FEE3.

Unsure of who would be allowed to upload to this and what quality guidelines would need to be adhered to.

If we do decide to use the channel year round, we should wait a few weeks for now as a post-FEE3 breather. Thoughts?

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I think FEE3 has grown too big and needs a new format or to be put to rest. Will elaborate more if asked, currently at work

So what you’re saying is… we are currently SANS serif?

Badum tss

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I think something like a biweekly video series on hacks/fanprojects could work. Something like ‘‘Fanproject of the week/Month’’ etc. but biweekly.

Alternatively, LPs and LTC runs of known and loved fanprojects, and fanprojects the ones who run the channel enjoy.

First of all, I wanted to thank all of the event coordinators, LPers, moderators, and the community for putting this event on for the 10th year running. There were so many amazing projects that got shown off this year and I’m excited to try all of the ones that caught my eye.

Also, I am so incredibly proud and happy that as a community we managed to raise almost $3k for such an important cause. Thank you so much to the organizers for publicizing this charity drive, and thank you thank you thank you to each and every person who made a donation. We are not the biggest community, so the fact that we raised as much as we did was really amazing. Please please please let these charity drives be a continuing trend with future events.

Next, I wanted to talk about the amount of content that was released for this year’s event. Honestly? I don’t mind that a bunch of videos were released, now I have new content to watch when I please until the next FEE3 event (since I have only seen like 16 videos). If a video comes out and I’m not interested in watching it after a bit, I just won’t watch it. For me, it has nothing to do with the length of the video as long as it’s an interesting project with interesting commentary.

However, and I’m going to be hated for saying this, I think that the barrier to entry for future events needs to be set wayyy higher. Hacking is easier than ever these days, and when more and more people are submitting projects to be shown off, I honestly think the organizers just need to be more strict on what gets through. But what about inclusiveness? I’m all for being inclusive. Like I said, I’m completely fine with the amount of videos that were shown off this year. The issue is, people don’t want to watch mediocre projects. Also, as a hacker, I don’t want to submit a hack that just isn’t ready yet, and there certainly are better hacks than others, and that’s ok. I think it’s just unfair to the event organizers to have to deal with projects that just really aren’t ready to be shown off yet. From what I hear, there were a few projects submitted were not shown off (for other reasons as well). However, I watched a bit of some videos where my first thought was just… yikes. The LPers did an amazing job, this has nothing to do with them, props to them. I know I sound like such a d*ck but honestly, I wouldn’t mind being cut if I knew my hack wasn’t good enough. That just pushes me to work harder for next year. Obviously there are issues with how to judge a submission, but honestly I trust the organizers pretty well to figure that out. I don’t think the issue is video length. I think the issue is the actual projects/videos that are being submitted

I also want to talk about the name FEE3. I know it’s been a thing for 10 years, but I really think a better name is in order. Again I’m probably going to be hated for saying that, so I’m just going to leave it at that lol.

I am so sad to hear that this event was really really unfun to organize for a wide variety of reasons. I’d be more than happy to help organize next year. Apart from the feedback I gave earlier, I think this event is doing a great job. Props again to all the organizers, all the lpers, Cam for destroying his wallet for a good cause, and most importantly, the wonderful hackers of this community.

One more thing. Now that the FEU Youtube channel is a thing, I definitely think that we should figure out something to do during the rest of the year when this event isn’t going on. Since it’s the hub for FE hacking, why not get community members to post some educational videos on hacking topics, art tips, other livestreams, competitions, etc? Idk just something that might be fun to think about doing. :stuck_out_tongue:

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