Which game do you think has the "best plot in the series"?

FE7’s plot is what happens when you try to tell a personal story in a time that doesn’t lend itself to a war, ergo FE’s entire premise, and then find out that can’t actually work 15 chapters in. FE7 probably has the best writing when it comes to character interactions and characters in general, but if you have great writers write a plot that can’t be anything but shit when it comes to the concept, you’re still gonna get a shit plot. Part of me wonders if that’s what happened to Fates because that game truly did have talented writers behind it, but the game just shat itself when it came to the execution.

The reason that I grouped them together is that, despite what you think of Kris, he really has no tangible impact on the outcome of events (everything related to him was a layer added over the existing FE3 plot, his newfound existence does not change the core progression of events in any meaningful way). Which, to be completely honest, I prefered the “minimal impact” self-insert approach to the “walking plot device with your face plastered over it” approach taken in subsequent games.

But hey, #DifferentStrokes.

I disagree with the premise that a smaller-scale, character-driven story is inherently at-odds with the FE format. FE5 pulled off the smaller sense of scale well, and FE7x (albeit non-canon) is crafted in the same vein as FE7 (and I have no doubt that 7x will end up having a better plot than a majority of the FE series). FE7’s problem is in the execution and progression of the plot, not with the premise of a small-scale prequel. They didn’t want to contrive some great continental war 20 years before FE6 which would have been completely erased from everybody’s memory, so the approach is completely understandable.

3 Likes

FE1/3/11/12 and FE2 have very simple plots, they lack of character development due the absense of support conversations. FE12 tried to fix that with the base conversations, but still they feel very plain.
But I like the stories on those games, simple but solid, you learn a lot of the continent and the lore.

FE4 has a complex plot; politics, lore, families, conflicts, etc.
The first part is really good, but the second part feels like something is missing. The first part explains a lot of the world they are, the friction between countries and how they try handle those problems.
Meanwhile the second part is focused in the Lopto, the Crusaders and why the war started.
In both parts you don’t get to see all characters individually, most of them are there to fulfill an archetype (Like Holyn, Lynn, etc.). If you want to know more about them, you have to read the Designer’s Notes, but it would be better to know that in the game rather than outside of it.
Regardless of those details, this is my favorite plot of all.

FE5 is an expansion of FE4, it explains a lot of the Lopto and how Leaf reconquered his homeland. It’s not as complex as FE4, but is less confusing. You see the struggle of Leaf in detail and how he grows as a leader until the end of the quest.
I think everybody would like to see the characters of FE4 being developed as they did with Leaf.
Overall is a good story, even being just a part of a bigger story.

FE6, this story is one of the most complete of the saga, like FE4, it explains a lot of the politics and lore, and for the first time, we learn about secondary characters.
The support system was a very good improvement to the character development. Some of the things that don’t explain in the main story is explained here.
But Roy is not an interesting protagonist as the others were, I can’t recall something memorable of him aside from being the leader of his army. The people that were with him were more interesting, I remember a lot of Guinivere, Yodel and Elphin, I even can remember some of the things that Yahn and the others antagonists talked with Roy.

FE7 is ok, the plot is told in two points of view, and unlike Roy, Eliwood and Hector are interesting characters. You can see this in the two routes, how each handled the problems in different ways.
Again, the supports help to learn more about the story and the individual personality of the other characters.
I like this story, but it’s plain and not that interesting.

FE8 takes the concept of FE7 and improves it. Not only it’s an story seen from two points of view, but also they’re their own separate stories.
You see how Eirika changed from a fragile princess to a independent person. With Ephraim you see the consequences of the war, how it affected people like Duessel and Selena.
But, I don’t know why I found this story boring…

FE9 is other complex plot. They take their time to explain what you need to know, the division between Laguz and Beorc, the politics of each country and the current war.
Ike is a very curious character. A mercenary that doesn’t care about politics, yet he gets involved in the conflict between Crimea and Daein.
I like how this story is told, it’s not the noble prince that has to reconquer his homeland, is a mercenary that gets involved in the war trying to protect a person that he doesn’t know is a noble.
Then the history of the nations, you get to see the point of view of almost every country, their alliances and interactions with each other, something that was rarely exposed on previous games.
I can say that this is my second favorite plot, complex yet interesting.

FE10, plotholes, Blood contract ex machina, the lack of supports…
Aside from that, it explains things from FE9 that were left unanswered and it expands the lore of the continent. The story is focused on religion and the ambition. And for the first time, you can see the point of view of two opposing armies. Then it you learn that both sides were manipulated to awake the wrath of godess.
I liked how they divided the story in parts. First the reconstruction of Daein, then the internal conflict of Crimea, the war of Begnion and the Alliance, and then the war againts the godess.
I hope one day we’ll see another story developed in this way.

FE13… The first story arc was ok, but then it falls apart. They developed the story too fast. You barely learn about the continents and each country. The supports aren’t as informative as in previous games, because most of them are fanservice or unnecesary comedy.
The focus of the story changes abruptly from Chrom to Robin and Lucina. Chrom is even less interesting than Roy. Lucina is well developed, but Robin… self inserts are just dull and boring. They tried to give him an appealing personality for most people, and he ended being generic and pointless.
This game tried to hard to appeal new audiences, that it lost the point of a Fire Emblem.

FE14. This is how you don’t make a plot.
Why the f*ck you make two points of view and then make them pointless?
Both Nohr and Hoshido are a mess, unnecessary drama, drastic changes of personalities, useless support conversations, hollow characters…
You know nothing about each nation aside from them being in war since years ago, and that Nohr = Occidental style, and Hoshido = Oriental style.
Revelations reveals nothing, you learn nothing about Valla. If you want to learn all, you must pay the DLC.
Kamui is an inconsistent character. It changes a lot between routes to the point he can be a different character in each route.
Just because this sells, it doesn’t mean that it’s good. This game is filled with fanservice and anime clichés, and why? Because that sells more.
At this point they don’t care about a good plot and story telling, they just want to sell.

6 Likes

I don’t get why people hate on Fates’ plot that much.
I mean, it’s true that it has been executed poorly, and that there are way too many filler chapters, but overall it’s not terrible. Birthright is plain and perhaps boring, but that’s standard for most FE plots. Conquest is the most controversial of all, but I think it does good at delivering the feeling that you’ve made the most tragic choice. Revelation is OK, it feels a bit rushed and it could’ve been developed better, but the few story elements -altough poor in content- are solid.

I think that’s the point, choices of that scale forge you into different kinds of people. It would be nonsensical for Corrin to be the same person despite the different experiences he’s been through. We’re not talking about hanging out with different groups of friends, but killing countless human beings, including your own family. That’s enough for people to develop different personalities.

tl;dr Just because it sells, it doesn’t mean it has to be the Devil incarnated.

Still shit compared to Shin Kobayashi’s original plot.

2 Likes

Shit that came out of my arse was also at one point potentially delicious food. Should I look at that shit and say, “My, that looks delicious” or in some vein say “That poop was once delicious food and I should appreciate it as such”, no.
You just fucking flush the shit, jesus christ.

Fuck Awakening, fuck Fates.

Also, just a heads up on anyone who wanted to post in this topic. Weak Plot =//= Thin Plot.

So let me just ask then, should I forgive FE4’s biggest blunders in the form of Eldigan or Manfroy pulling a Dr.Evil, FE10’s never explained Blood Pact, Ninian being revived in FE7’s endgame because lol Brimimond can suddenly do that, or FE9 literally giving two of it’s characters literal plot armor. Every FE game has bullshit plots, and honestly, if your going to call Awakenings/Fates bad games because of their plots, I legit have to ask why you’re even playing this franchise to begin with. FE never has and never will be good or even decent at plot, and the occasions when it tries to do so are usually when it fucks up the hardest if Fates, RD, and FE4 are any indication. Granted, I’m the the asshole noob who defends Awankning/Fartes, so feel free to ignore this

1 Like

You’re pointing out smaller things in the large schemes of the games whereas the backbone of Awakening and Fates is inherently flawed so everything you bring up in defence is futile because nothing will salvage the core of those games, at least in regards to writing(plot, pacing, dialogue, characters.)

You’re cherry picking small things that aren’t enough to even ruin the games and trying to compare them to the faults people have with A/F.
Haven’t played FE4, as far as I know, even though the Blood Pact isn’t FULLY explained in the games you know who has it, how it relatively works and how to get rid of it, enough to understand it’s impact on the game and it’s role in the story. Sure it’s not the greatest idea in regards to originality or design but that’s irrelevant, it’s purpose is there and it works for that purpose. Ninian being revived only undermines her death which overall doesn’t hurt the story enough to make the games bad. 90% of games in existence has plot armour, and don’t bring up stupid examples to combat that. The mother in Fates dies, yeah, as a pathetic attempt to draw emotions out of the player not as a legitimate death. Gotta’ get 'dem kills in to make them think you’re top-shit, just go look at Danganronpa 3 and it’s fans to see this exact same issue in anime. Also, not every FE game has bullshit plots, some may be silly at times, stupid at times, pointless at times, but overall they’re strung together nice enough at least to provide a captivating experience. Awakening/Fates is silly, stupid and pointless throughout to the point where each chapter becomes a drag, an unnecessary slog through bland and boring maps filled with waves of enemies, they just aren’t interesting or engrossing in any manner. They try to partly cover this with attempts at “interesting” characters, by that I mean anime’s kind of interesting characters which are trope and cliche as all fuck. There’s even actual names like Tsundere for those stereotypes. Those characters that are completely defined by those traits have nothing else of value, it’s ridiculous.

I have to go take a shit, so I’m gonna leave this as it is.

3 Likes

This is why I didn’t liked Nohr at all, the entire story revolves around you feeling like garbage just because you chose the “evil” side. It seems that both plots were designed to empathize with Hoshido and to hate Nohr, while they advertised the routes in the total opposite way.
Hoshido was advertised as the peace-lover nation, but you end killing almost everything here. Nohr was advertised as the blood-thirsty nation, but you end being afraid to hurt a fly.

Hoshido is plain, and at certain degree, pointless, 60% of the story you’re looking for your brothers, then filler and then some plan to conquer Nohr. And don’t forget the Leo ex Machina, that two use tome was extremely convenient, and for some reason it isn’t mentioned on Nohr.

Nohr, well, drama everywhere, you have to earn the respect of a father that wants you death, you have to convince your brothers and then try to expose your father. I only liked this over Hoshido because you’re trying to conquer the other nation, you have a clear goal unlike in Hoshido.

Even with the different experiences in both routes, a person at least has a defined personality, what you gain with those experiences is see how that person handles the events.
Changing from a hero that kills everything is moving in Hoshido to a scared person that is tormenting itself in Nohr simply doesn’t make sense.
Kamui could have the same philosophy of don’t hurt anyone in Hoshido too, but screw that, he is the almighty hero that kills the forces of evil. Or being strong and determined in Nohr, instead of regret his choice every time he can.
And in Revelations you don’t get to see everything about Kamui, here the story is focused on the mystery of Valla and Aqua that you see almost nothing about Kamui, here he feels like a generic hero.

Awakening and Fates aren’t bad games, in fact the gameplay of Fates is really good. They just fail to tell their story in a solid way as the previous games did.
Everyone knows that all the stories of the other games aren’t perfect or make complete sense, but the way they tell their story is very consistent and focused. Fates and Awakening are too busy with the anime themes and the stereotypes to tell the story properly.

3 Likes

Fair enough, I get your points.
It’s still not enough flawed for me to not enjoy it, but I can see why some people might have problems with the stories of Fates.

gg wp

I still can’t stop laughing at the big bad slime monster “plot twist”. #SorryNotSorry

2 Likes

But Muk is sexy

1 Like

Wait, so what exactly is your problem with Eldigan? In my mind, he’s one of the more sympathetic characterizations of the Camus archetype. The personal friendship that he had with Sigurd and Quan positioned him as the first major enemy that wound up on the “wrong side” of the war–one of the people that players legitimately regret having to kill. Manfroy is really no better/no worse than any of the other Gharnef clones, so I’m not exactly sure what your gripe is there either. These character archetypes are relatively consistent throughout the series, so I’m somewhat confused as to why you would point specifically to those two characters as being on the same level of bad plot devices such as blood pacts and random character revivals.

The blood pacts thing is a fair point–it was definitely the most absurd, out-of-left-field plot device in the franchise’s history, at least until Fates came along with that whole “floating sky island that you are magically prevented from speaking about in the first two routes (or else you’ll turn into bubbles or some bullshit like that)” thing. Making blood pacts look semi-sensible is quite an accomplishment on IS’s part.

2 Likes

It’s quite simple when you think about it what my problem with Eldigan is, how does this asshole not know that by serving Chagall, he’s serving the king he was so loyal to’s murderer. Genealogy really doesn’t make it a secret that Chagall offed the king. Hell, Raquesis herself tells Eldigan as much before he gets captured by the guy the first time, and you’d think being thrown into a dungeon then blatantly being used to save the ass of the guy later, only for the same guy to off you the second you finally get some sense, and even with the sense Chagall must be stopped, he never gets the bright idea to use that OP af sword of his when Chagall orders him killed assuming you have Raquesis talk to him when you fight him.

On the Manfroy point, there’s a simple reason I have gripes with him, someone as brutally effective as he has been up until the point where you rescue Julia should not have been dumb enough to make the Dr. Evil esque mistake he did that effectively cost the Lopto Empire the war. I’m fine with a villain being stupid, but only if he’s consistently stupid. Manfroy up until Genealogy’s late game is portrayed as quite possibly the greatest tactician the series has ever had considering the shit he pulls off in the first generation, so why does he become a total dumbass the chapter you fight him.

Honestly tho, your right that these are common archetypes in the series’ plots, and while I despise the Camus archetype with a passion and find Gharnef’s hit or miss, Eldigan and Manfroy always stuck out to me as the worst, because without them, FE4 would actually have a rather serviceable plot that if it fixed it’s paceing issues as well, it would be the first good story in this series.

1 Like

Those aren’t problems with the plot or writing, Eldigan is just stupid. It’s bad writing if a character does something that doesn’t seem as if it’s something he or she would do or if it’s an asspull. But that’s literally all we see of Eldigan, so you can’t say it’s not in his character to make such a stupid mistake. Honestly the issue I have with FE4’s writing is how important characters are introduced and dealt with in one chapter. It makes for a very fragmented story.

Doesn’t each chapter of FE4 take span over a long period of time, at least in contrast to later titles where the fights you could essentially assume to be a day long or so, roughly?
I remember reading that in one chapter two characters meet and by the end of it they fall in love and it’s super jarring if you don’t take that time factor into consideration…

I think it’s understood to be over weeks or months. The time lapse between Eldigan’s imprisonment and his execution is at least a year.

im voting for fe4 here cause of one reason alone. I feel it had the most interesting world that wasn’t tellius, and world building is traditionally the biggest strength of the franchise in my opinion. I mean i would vote for fe9 or fe10 but i like them about the same tbh though 10 i like a bit more then 9 actually, fun times with the blood pacts.
honestly i feel fates and awakenings problems can be summed up in to points. A lack of strong world building, and shoveling the information down the players throat, cause when i think about the characters there’s nothing actually really wrong with them and the plots are perfectly serviceable in the basic outline, its just that the presentation doesn’t feel right. and thats because information is simply being shoveled down your throat, there’s no time for world building cause all this really important plot stuff is happening right now you guys, not time for things to simply exist the worlds are constantly in motion and theres no time to sit back and catch your breath.

… if anyone can get some sense from this please feel free to tell me what it is ’ 3 ’

Eldigan takes the entire “loyalty to a fault” concept to a new level, sure. Was it absolutely foolish of him to allow himself to be held hostage, and then sent on a death march by that very same person? Sure. Would Eldigan rebelling have brought the murdered king back to life? No, and he’s a rational enough character to understand that. I’d imagine that there is some level of suspicion, after Granvale’s invasion of Isaach, that they have imperialist ambitions. Eldigan is caught between a rock and a hard place: loyalty to his country (for fear that it could cease to exist if Sigurd triumphs), and the fact that Chagall is a treacherous fuckwad. Since Eldigan was raised as the heir to a subservient duchy, it makes sense that the former would outweigh the latter in Eldigan’s decision-making process. Staving off the Granvale invasion takes priority, and Chagall is an issue that can be handled internally within Agustria. Eldigan’s priorities were focused on the preservation of his nation’s sovereignty. He was right to remain suspicious of Granvale, given the fact that Lombard and Leptor appear at the end of the chapter to capture Sigurd. Even if Eldigan had killed Chagall and joined forces with Sigurd, the Granvallian army would have still continued conquering Agustria territory. They would not have honored the Sigurd x Eldigan truce.

Hubris. At least, that’s my interpretation of Manfroy’s downfall. He was so brutally effective for so long, had ushered in the revival of an empire and the revival of an ancient dark deity, that he finally was arrogant enough to think that he could control that deity’s mortal enemy. It bites him in the ass, sure, as often happens to exceptionally successful individuals who overstep the boundaries of their power.

1 Like

I wasn’t entirely sure if the question here was “which plot is the best” or “which plot was told the best” so I voted for FE5, as the one I feel was told the best. I think that FE4 has the more interesting story to tell, and based on that alone I might say FE4 is the best. However, I feel that FE5 conveys its story so much better in almost every way, so it gets my vote.

While its not another “saving the world” plot that you can find a variation of in literally every other Fire Emblem game ever made, I think the smaller scale does FE5 a lot of favors in terms of characterization. It knows what it’s supposed to be from the beginning: an underdog story. The game pounds it into your head time and time again that you are vastly outnumbered and in way over your head. You spend a large part of the game on the run, which realistically more FE Lords should be doing instead of charging in headfirst.
Because you’re playing the underdog, each victory feels like you really earned it, and I’m not talking from a game play standpoint either. Even when you go on the offensive in the story, its almost always credited to superior tactics, rather than brute force, and the game makes it known in-universe. Without your tactician, you’re boned, and the game sticks to that until the end.

FE4 was pretty good about its worldbuilding, at least in Gen 1, but I feel like FE5 does just as well if not better for its own story. In FE5 we get to see the Loptyr Empire being assholes instead of just hearing about it. We get more information on the Thracian people, and really get to see firsthand that even though the country is technically unified, there’s a LOT of problems going on behind the scenes. We get to see a lot more people who are good men/women manipulated into working for this corrupt system, whereas FE4 had Hannibal. And this isn’t me trying to shit on FE4’s plot, quite the opposite actually. FE4 had a pretty good plot and it’s not entirely fair to say FE5 did it better when it wouldn’t exist without FE4. Regardless, the fact that FE5 takes this established world and brings it up close as if under a magnifying glass really does a lot to create a more cohesive narrative. I don’t feel like the story glosses over things because there just isn’t enough time to explain all the relevant information without a 30 minute text dump at the end of each chapter. And really, that is Thracia 776’s greatest strength when it comes to the story. Because the story itself isn’t as grand, there’s enough time to explore the details.

On a side note, while I’m not trying to take away from the other games, I really wish more FE titles wouldn’t be afraid to stray from “Lord beats empire, fist fights God, bangs (sometimes a dragon) girl, The End” type stories. I’m not knocking it because it’s a cliche, but because the more I think about it I genuinely don’t think that Fire Emblem is a good platform for telling these kinds of stories. Generally, the only way to learn about the world in FE is to read about it. It might be Pre-Chapter Dialogue, visiting a house, support conversations, or whatever. The bottom line is, that’s all you can really do with it. There’s really no exploring the world yourself, unraveling of mysteries, or any of that stuff to flesh out a world/universe besides reading text boxes. Writing a more personal story doesn’t necessarily fix any of that, but at least then the narrative tends to be more focused on the characters themselves, rather than a bigger picture that is often hard to grasp the way its explained in game. On the flipside, for a series with so many recruitable characters in each game, a large number are surprisingly well thought out, and tend to be at the very least 2-dimensional. Maybe IS should try another game where the characters drive the story (like FE5), rather than having the story drive the characters?

/my .02

5 Likes

Ok, a little late to the game. But, going to put my opinion in this.
I feel more than anything that the best plot in the franchise would be FE 8. Just the characters brought it down. I mean we have Eirika and Ephraim as the two twin lords. If Ephraim had more characteristics or maybe change during the plot he would have been fun to play as. But, he remains static. Eirika is different she starts out a determined woman who wants to save her brother to a very stubborn woman. (Why the fk did you give Lyon the stone.) That part basically made the first six chapters pointless. Then theres Ephraim charges in trying to be all high and mighty tries to take the stone but because plot armor Lyon basically becomes OP as fk and freezes Ephraim and destroys the stone. Then theres Princess Tana who had a lot of potential of being a badass as well to being a damsel in distress. (Twice, if you take Ephraims route.) Oh well, least she’s a beast Falcon Knight.) Prince Innes felt pretty cool though, I mean yeah he’s an asshole, but he only means to protect his sister or comeades. L’archel is simply put weird, but at least she has a noble cause. Joshua has a nice characterization not the mother/father death its he likes to gamble and the runaway Prince from duties character I like.
Other than some of the characters the story itself is pretty solid. Arc One, the rescue of Ephraim, Arc Two, Fall of the Stones, Arc Three, the Demon King.

1 Like