On a side note, wtf happened to quotes on FEU? There’s a whole string of letters and numbers/other bullshit in the top section of every quote. I blame Cambama.
Ignorance is not innocence, but the “first offense” should be primarily educational, yes.
I agree with that. Mostly, I was talking about repeat offenders. There’s gotta be punishment at some point for a pattern of behavior.
Procedural response to these situations should be:
- Close/hide topic.
- Contact the original artist.
- PM the offender, issue warning, and provide contact details for the original artist (if the artist wants to handle it themselves, otherwise the staff member should articulate the artist’s wishes).
- If topic is reposted in compliance, good on them! They learned their lesson and hopefully there won’t be a future issue.
That’s the ideal outcome. Which, again, is why I advocate for building more open-source resource compilations. Ideally, having prominent open-sourcing will help newcomers realize that not everything they see is up for grabs.
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That’s pretty fair to me. Well, other than this part.
What does this mean? So if the artist screams “BAN THE SUMBITCH!” we just ban them? I doubt any would, but this reminds me of the controversy in how some countries allow victims to decide the fate of the accused when a criminal act has occured. They can offer leniency or they can punish harshly, at their own discretion.
I was going to look up data for what generally occurs since I read about this last year, but now I can’t even think of the term for it. In any case, it’s generally perceived by most people as an unfair system and generally punishes the offender much more harshly than most would consider ‘fair’.
Unless you meant something else?
Edit: He meant something else.
So I’m not the only one here, huh. I’ve been taking out the name and timestamp of the original post because of it.
But can’t we try to not decimate and maul the offender of said sprite piracy? I’ve never seen a single instance where the person was like “Oh, this was made by (insert artist here)? Alright, I’ll remove it.” after one post.
Anyways, you two are pretty much talking to a brick wall up to this point. Wouldn’t it be better to move that conversation elsewhere?
Arch makes the rules in the community, so if the discussion makes him decide to change the rules, it’s not exactly a brick wall scenario.
Give it a few more years. I’ve seen it happen at least twice.
Just like: “The artist wants you to take their sprite out of your hack, and a patch cannot be posted on FEU until their content has been removed.” Or hey, maybe they’re nice enough to let the person off with a warning and grant permission at the same time. So long as the newcomers are learning that sprite galleries aren’t a free buffet, it’ll hopefully lead to better habits either way.
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Fair enough.
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As a Chinese FE8 Hacker，I am so sad for this person，He is a bad FE8 hacker.Sorry，my English is not very good，please forgive me.@zhawhjw.（I just want to @beijunan）
Hello，la qie er，S dark.
Theft applies to excludable, rivalrous goods.
Copyright and piracy applies to (usually)excludable, non-rivalrous goods. It’s different in nature because it’s infringing on intellectual property rights and nor the right to property (er, the physical kind).
So really how we enforce this as a community should 1) be different from treating it as the same thing as theft. We can have the same punishments, sure, but it’s inherently a different thing. 2) reflect how our community views the intellectual property rights of modders. This is a sketchier point since we are already reusing a lot of IntSys’s intellectual property. A certain degree of fair use exists, but reusing the whole FE7/8 engine is more borderline.
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[quote=“Crazycolorz5, post:54, topic:1009, full:true”]2) reflect how our community views the intellectual property rights of modders. This is a sketchier point since we are already reusing a lot of IntSys’s intellectual property. A certain degree of fair use exists, but reusing the whole FE7/8 engine is more borderline.
[/quote]
This is pretty important. At this point modders pretty much demand more rights than Intelligent Systems. For example I don’t think anyone has asked IntSys for permission to use their stuff. IntSys also can’t really say no in practice and expect people to listen. That’s pretty weird to me when you consider that IntSys also has a relatively large monetary interest in this game (it’s on VC) and it’s one of IntSys’ biggest series. Sure you can always be nice but the community is kinda forcing it on you (i can totally see the issue of directly claiming you made it but let’s be honest even the dick referred to in the OP awknowledged he didn’t make everything so that’s mostly a non-issue) and i think that most people who actually try to make full hacks would do that anyway. It’s probably only for hacks with people still trying to learn hacking where things like using sprites and animations where the creator dosen’t want it (in the case of sprites they may even be temporary) happens. All in all i think that it’s dumb and it holds back the community.
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I had a silly idea actually. Let’s say someone posts some new project and it has sprites from DoF in it, maybe some animations, idk. Anyway, you, intrepid reader, notice it’s clearly not the creators work. Instead of saying “Hey I caught you, thief!”, instead, try saying something like “Wow! Cool sprites/animations/whatever! I can’t believe you made those yourself!”
When the person reponds, if they correct you and say “Oh no, actually I didn’t make those! Those came from some other hack.” then you should respond with “Ohhh okay. You should ask the original hack author for permission and then post credits, otherwise it will confuse someone. Plus, it’s also against the rules.”
Why do this? Because if you jump out and attack them claiming you know it’s stolen, they do not have the chance to clear up confusion. You essentially make them the ‘bad guy’ no matter how they respond. If they get ‘caught’ and they say “Oh gosh, sorry!” then it looks like they’re just sorry they got caught, but if you do it the way I just outlined, and they mention another hack, you give them a chance to mention they didn’t make the sprites, you clear up confusion about unspoken rules, and best of all nobody ends up being the bad guy, no shitstorm, no banning, no ruined reputations.
Furthermore, if you do as I outlined and they simply respond with “Thanks! I worked really hard on those sprites/animations/etc” then CLEARLY they just took the sprites and claimed credit. At this point, they ARE the bad guy. You gave them a chance to come clean, and they’re a liar. It’s your discretion how to act after that.
There were many things that you haven’t heard.
One year ago:
Translation:
-You need the author’s permission.
Theft is theft. Robbers are robbers. Rogues are rogues.Klokinator
Uhhh, did you say my name because they mentioned me, or were you just tagging me? Kinda weird if they specifically named me.
No, I just reply to you. In fact, I think the word “foreigner” includes all of you. His meaning: If you don’t want him to steal sprites from your hack, just don’t release them. Now that you released them, he can do anything he wants.
To conclude, I am against to be too kind to theft. The word that the piracy doesn’t remove your car so it is correct is quite ridiculous. Just imagine that someone fucked your wife and because you haven’t lost you wife so is it correct? Now that he released his hack publicly, there is a responsibility for him to take.
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It isn’t correct it’s just not as wrong. On the “too kind to theft” i may also think differently (i’m against putting people in prison in general. It’s terrible, it creates crime and shouldn’t really be done nearly as often as it is done.) so maybe that’s part of the disagreement. Also there is a huge difference between putting in something and not mentioning who made it and being like let’s take this sprite put it in my hack and say i made it. Both are rude but one is obviously much worse than the other.
Would you be opposed to us drafting up a english-community-wide (at least suggested) usage license? I’m thinking the main tenant should be: everything released is fair to use, without asking, as long as credit is given. If you cannot find the original author, evidence of some attempt at finding him/her should be given, with a link to wherever you found the resource.
On the artists’ side, include some kind of credit file in a sip with your work, so it’s easier to credit you? I think I’m going to go back and tag all of my source code with my name and credits.
(note to myself: for code, make reusing code from others obligatory for crediting them. Possibly offsets others found isn’t necessary for a citation, but a shoutout suggested if it was major?)
are there any moderators or people with the ability to ban users on that forum or whatever? @MisakaMikoto
in this community he’d be suspended at best, and the topic would be hidden.
aside from like that Marisa the Crimson flash guy regarding Reckoning, which I found people handled pretty well at first before it got way wild…
What were the most recent instances of thefts that the creators jumped on and ripped the original poster for? Most instances I remember happening were pretty civil
If there’s at least a bit of a favor for this, I’ll make a new thread to discuss it.
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Fund it.